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16 November 2011

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IRB is doing some important business here in the USA in Los Angles in early December. Wonder if the management of USA Rugby will be able to get any benefits of having all the big hitters here in the USA?

http://rugbyrugby.com/news/more_news/southern_hemisphere/6997191/irb_elections_moved_to_los_angeles

Does 15s need to follow the lead of 7s and expect potential Eagles to play on the Pacific coast? Canada made a similar push.

"Does 15s need to follow the lead of 7s and expect potential Eagles to play on the Pacific coast? Canada made a similar push."

Probably not a bad idea and if not made "mandatory", it should be "encouraged". I hardly think anyone would be foolish enough to argue that the SoCal D-I league is not the best league in the country.

"I hardly think anyone would be foolish enough to argue that the SoCal D-I league is not the best league in the country."

In the last 5 years, only 2 SoCal D1 teams have made the final four (with a combined total of 3 appearances), and only 1 SoCal D1 team has won the D1 national championship. Last year featured exactly zero SoCal teams in the final four, and only Belmont Shore even won a game in the national playoffs (SoCal went a combined 2-4 overall, with only Belmont making it out of the Round of 32). SoCal ruggers need to get off their high horses.

Only this website could manage to put such a negative spin on what most people would probably agree is a fantastic development for rugby in America.

"Amid clinching a formal agreement with USOC and the many operating details to be addressed, the program presents a strategic challenge in that residency would appear to sideline high school and college athletes."

Um... not that many college kids are ever on the national 7s team (isn't Tiberio the only active one at the moment?), and exactly zero high school kids have ever been.

"The implications range from pressuring school-age youth to choose between valuable secondary education and low-wage, professionalized sport, such as has happened in Europe and Canada in academy systems; to bypassing those players budding on college campuses, which as full-time environments themselves have been a leading source of US 15s internationals (not to mention the wellspring of America's pro sports leagues); to gravitating toward a pool of older athletes able to live away from home (or still more foreign-born players), rather than long-term cultivation of elite teenagers."

This is ridiculous - those that go to college will develop in the college pathways and still be able to play on the national sevens squad when they're roughly 21-23 (graduating ages vary). That's not exactly fostering a "pool of older athletes." And the goal isn't to make this a development academy for teenagers - it's to take the best 15 players in a given moment and prepare them 40 hours a week for intense international rugby. Think of this program like a pro sports franchise, not a soccer development academy.

Excellent news. Big thanks go to the USOC who have seen value in improving our 7's (both men & women) programs. With monetary issues out of the way, the pressure is now on the players and staff to climb the ranks.

Caravelli has clearly made improvements to the player pathway and attracted USOC funds. EOS failed to do this for 15s. The new 15s Head Coach must have a player pathway strategy and some ability to attract funds. Every conference/GU should have a structure to bring top players together for development camps and elite level competition. Perhaps not on the scale of the San Diego effort but something.

Knowing the numbers for this would be interesting.

Knowing numbers on a lot of USAR efforts would be interesting. The college conferences have been restructured and the 7 TU's are being turned into 16 GU's. The collection and distribution of CIPP dues is changing but USAR has not provided details. Rumor is each GU will have a paid adminstrator, again, no details. The Eagles Head Coach salary being offered is also unknown. The majority of USAR finances are being restructured, yet no details from USAR.

"In the last 5 years, only 2 SoCal D1 teams have made the final four (with a combined total of 3 appearances), and only 1 SoCal D1 team has won the D1 national championship. Last year featured exactly zero SoCal teams in the final four, and only Belmont Shore even won a game in the national playoffs (SoCal went a combined 2-4 overall, with only Belmont making it out of the Round of 32). SoCal ruggers need to get off their high horses."

1st I live outside of DC, in other words on the other side of the country.
2nd I was refering to the league top to bottom. There are 3 former super league teams now competing full time in the league. I was not commenting on the championships won or playoff games won, I was commenting on the competition found within the league itself. But regarding championships, So Cal teams have won 3 of the last 10 just the AL East has won 3 of the last 10 world series and most believe that the AL is the best division or "league" in MLB.

Now go get your shinebox.

The Pacific coast has the deepest player pool, no question.

"2nd I was refering to the league top to bottom. There are 3 former super league teams now competing full time in the league. I was not commenting on the championships won or playoff games won, I was commenting on the competition found within the league itself."

By this idiotic logic the Mid-Atlantic is/was a powerhouse, what with PAC, Washington, Charlotte, and (now D3) Philly-Whitemarsh. Pffft.

"But regarding championships, So Cal teams have won 3 of the last 10 just the AL East has won 3 of the last 10 world series and most believe that the AL is the best division or "league" in MLB."
So, what about Eastern Rockies and its 5 out of the last 16? I doubt anyone would try to argue that it's the best league (Eastern Rockies, that is). You may want to stop drinking the Southern California kool-aid - no matter where you live.

Typo - that should say:

"So, what about Eastern Rockies and its SIX out of the last 16? I doubt anyone would try to argue that it's the best league (Eastern Rockies, that is). You may want to stop drinking the Southern California kool-aid - no matter where you live."

Eastern Rockies (in the West) has won SIX of the past FIFTEEN, not 5 of the past 16. And, again, I doubt anyone's claiming the West [West-North, technically] / Eastern Rockies is the best league.

On your valueable secondary education point Kurt.

You only have a finite number of years to pursue a sporting goal. The nature of the aging process. You can always go back to school or, given the scientific rigour applied to high performance most guys would be able to study or do their degrees part time.

anon-

What league do you think is the best? I point out that the former super league teams in the so cal league were either past champions in the RSL or D-I and within the past 9 years have won 4 RSL Titles and 2 D-I titles plus Las Vegas won a D-I title as well. 4 Clubs & 7 titles in 9 years.

Not to mention that Back Bay reached a national D1 final during that period.

RK:

My larger point is that it's stupid to act as though SoCal is this vastly superior league, not to offer up my suggestion as to what's 'best.' Really, the regions that win titles are more reflective of given clubs than regions. Santa Monica might have been impressive years back, but they couldn't even make the Round of 16 last year. Aspen, arguably the greatest club in the modern era, doesn't even exist in competitive 15s anymore.

That being said, if we're going to add in RSL results, one could still make points about Eastern Rockies / West-North, seeing as Aspen won 3 RSL titles (on top of their 5 D-1 titles), and the Barbarians won a RSL title as well. This, in addition to an Eastern Rockies team being the current champs (Glendale). That's 3 clubs with 10 titles in 15 years. If you add another year, SoCal can get up to 9 titles in that same time period, but it's still less than the teams from Colorado.

If one wanted, they could also harp up the Northeast (or, what used to be the Northeast before the recent GU realignment, rather). NYAC has won 3 RSL titles and the Wolfhounds won 2 D-1 titles. That's 2 clubs with 5 titles in 9 years. Not as impressive as SoCal or the West-North, but still noteworthy.

I'd also posit that NorCal is rather strong overall, even though SFGG seems to be the only club that ever has it's shit together. Olympic Club is a strong D1 team, and there's been a rotating cast of polynesian teams that have played well also.

Overall, it's generally obvious that senior men's rugby in America is strongest in California, the Rockies, and the Northeast. I'm not going to sit here and argue that the South (aside from Life), Texas, the Midwest, the Pacific Northwest, or the Mid-Atlantic are on par with those regions, but I do think it's rather stupid to try and put SoCal up on a pedestal like it's this obviously superior area of rugby. Remember, your original quote of contention was that, "I hardly think anyone would be foolish enough to argue that the SoCal D-I league is not the best league in the country." My point is that this is highly arguable, and it would be foolish to think it's not.

It also strikes me as short-sighted to think that results beyond the past few years really matter in arguing a league is the "best league." Given that Santa Monica and OMBAC have been pretty pedestrian for a while, and that Las Vegas (like Aspen) is non-existant for the moment, all the SoCal league really has to offer at the D1 level is Belmont Shore.

Given that the RSL complicates what constitutes a 'best league,' as it has teams in some areas (i.e. NY) that don't count as D1 for the sake of this 'argument,' while other areas lack a RSL team (i.e. SoCal), the debate tends to trend back to rugby regions as a whole - as noted above. For example, just because SFGG is an RSL team and O Club isn't, it doesn't mean they don't play each other and that such a thing doesn't matter (because it does).

I also think 'best league' arguments are foolish (to borrow your diction) if said league isn't continually racking up titles. The SEC is argued as the 'best league' in college football, but it backs it up with 5 or 6 straight national championships. SoCal can't seem to put it's money where it's mouth is (again - no team made the final four last year, and only Belmont won a game at all; not to mention there are no RSL teams in SoCal anymore).

If USAR was able to offer 15s players financial support and development facilities as they are doing for 7s, should they focus on one center or multiple centers? SoCal already has Sevens and extending capabilities for 15s would not take much work. Denver and NYC would be logical places to center elite player development.

Back to the announcement.

It makes sense this is Al's plan. That Al convinced Nigel to support this plan with the USOC.

This conclusion is based on the following facts. The 7's Eagles have been in decline. Although they have shown signs of life, they have yet to improve even with the IRB core team status. Just to remind everyone, becoming a core team and being offer full no cost participation in the IRB 7's circuit was supposed to dramatically improve our team. This hasn't happened in a big way. In fact the Eagles performance level has declined.

By wasting USOC money meant to prepare a team for the 2016 Olympics on the current team which most will age out, is a huge mistake. However, this rerouting of USOC funds will help the currents team's performance on the IRB circuit. This might keep Al's job, which is the most important factor...for Al. If Al can get a few upsets using players which will be past their 2016 use by date, it will keep Al in the 7's job.

What should be happening is every cent of the USOC funds should be targeted at young player elite development and competitions aimed at developing a large group of elite players for 2016 and beyond.

But just like every other time development funds have arrived USAR will rob them to pay for current national team bills.

This plan is a huge mistake.

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