« Ed Hagerty speaks out | Main | Guest column: Mea maxima culpa »

23 August 2010

Comments

"The majority are now paid.... All will be paid this week when the final checks arrive,' USARFU chief executive Nigel Melville said in an email."

Nice to know where my Cipp and club registration money went this week!
Don't be-grudge the win bonuses really, but I do think that the money a HS or college pays to USAR should go back into that part of the game.

So just went back to KR's blog to see if my comments had been posted. Surprisingly they had not...however, KR ahd managed to rewrite his blog to remove the ref to the Womens 7's world cup he seemed to think the US was playing in in England. (something i had pointed out may not be correct, but unlike KR I dont have the inside scoop about high level rugby goings on. He did not make any mention anbout the player bonuses or whether Nige and Eddy have been paid while the players haven't.

But I now see most players have recieved their monies.

I guess KR got it done again...

I also made a comment on KR's blog referencing the Womens Sevens World Cup. It was not posted, obviously. There was a post that said something to the effect of "Not a single post about USA Rugby for months and then you come out with this the same week as Hagerty's article bashing you? A bit transparent, isn't it?" That was conveniently replaced by a positive post from "Susan."

This is a must read.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/media/features/12022/

kurt, the u20 women's team went to NACRA and had to pay there own way

Two things to point out the youth and high school folks led by several SBRO officials said they would pull out of USA Rugby 6 months ago if more monies did not go back to the game. They demanded a 1 for 1 dollar in and dollar out, at the end of this year people will see. The good news is the SBRO folks are meeting twice a year, at least monthly calls and have a strategic plan they are trying to stick to. Not all are on board, but they are mananaging their own fate.

POINT - They forced this change of funding with a potential coup/succession

The College game is now going through some of the same forced changes, time will tell if these things that they are doing or building last and will have more finances coming in their direction.

The club game will never be organized enought to get a return on investment, and unfortunately these are the folks that make up the Congress mostly. They are not even thinking or looking for a better return.

The complete seperation in all these arguements is the lack of financial or commerce that is needed or is missing from rugby in the US. TU/LAU officials have no real accounting, business development, gate or revenue streams (let alone understanding) for the sport and USA Rugby and its CEO and corporate board do not feel an obligation to educate and move people forward. It seems like the IRB they like the welfare state. They do not recognize that with more commerce that volunteers can do more of the tasks they enjoy rather the mundane that runs people down.

So with all that, here is to a Congress meeting in Dallas that is not like the SBRO working meetinging of stakeholders sharing ideas and being accountable to each other with reports and plans (this is in no way perfect and is going through growing pains, rules debates, etc), but one that is a presentation with no interaction and no real outcomes.

The facts are for two months Melville thought it perfectly fine to cash his monthly checks of $25,000, while the players were stiffed their measly $500 bucks.

Nigel and Eddie kept cashing paycheck totally more than $40,000 a month while the players combined compensation bonus of $11,000 for 22 of them was delayed month after month, and for some is still delay.

How is this for leadership? Who would want to call these guys boss or coach?

Tell you what, if some players didn't get on these comment boards bringing these payments to the public attention, they would all still be waiting for their measly $500.

CEO and the CFO paid themselves. They paid the coach over in Ireland, the full time assistant coaches got paid. The players get stiffed. Nice organization!

Sorry to hi-jack this thread but can someone either tell me how to register for rugbymag.com(everytime I do I get an error message)

Thanks

Now back to gainline.

I had the same problem (a number of times). Even contacted Alex Goff. Finally gave up. There's a lot wrong with a registration-less free-for-all, but it beats the hell out of not being able to register at all.

"....the full time assistant coaches got paid...."

We should wait and see which one of the full time assistants jumps ship first, then we should reward that person with the head coaching position (post revolution).

Those are some of our top rugby men, I am hopeful that its getting harder and harder for them to stand on the sideline of this fight.

sorry to hi-jack again...there is a lot of numbnuts posting on rugbymag.com right now about the SFU & UBC teams playing in the PNW D-I. I would gather that it is not there first teams playing in the PNW D-I, why would they drop down a several levels of play to compete for nothing? I gather that the fools posting over there don't have much rugby knowledge much less knowledge about BC Rugby. One guy asked if anyone knew if UBC & SFU were going to compete for the Canadian Universities Championship, unless that is something new, I don't think there is one.

http://www.universitysport.ca/e/w_rugby/

It looks like women's rugby is a CIS sport but not men's rugby.

I would be the "numbnut" you are referring to. I assure you, I know more about US College rugby than anyone on this and any other thread. I will however, claim ignorance on the realm of Canadian College Rugby. This is precisely why I was asking various questions on the topic.

So Mr. Bush, when you're done name-calling, why don't you educate the rest of us on Canadian Rugby and UBC as you appear to be a subject matter expert. That would be most helpful to me and the rest of the "numbnuts"

ca, I know more.

ca = Canadian Anonymous?
ca = Can't Announce?
ca = College A-hole?

WTF are you?

ca = Canadian Anonymous... that would be Reggie Bush

ca = can't announce, that would be Alex Goff attempting to broadcast rugby.

ca = college a-hole... that's not that far off.

UBC routinely gets the bejezzus kicked out of them in the BC league. U of Victoria has the lump sum of Canadian national team players that attend college. Any player on a national team pathway that gets the tax stipend offered by the Canadian Gov't ends up at U. Vic. The BC competition includes men's club and college teams, there is no separate league for colleges (at least in BC). Not sure about SFU, but probably in the same boat. They will have more on-par competition in the new conference.

Very interesting. So if that's the case and unless I'm missing something, it seems like there would be a lot of incentive to withdraw from their Canadian competition and join USAR formally. They would get to play in a true college competition and their rivals, Cal, would be in the same league should they move up to Div I Premier.

Mens rugby is one of the oldest varsity sports at UBC (including the precursor to UBC, McGill University College of BC, varsity rugby started in 1906). The varsity XV now competes against the University of Victoria in a two game, combined score series to claim the coveted "Boot". They also play a two game, combined score series against the University of California Berkeley (consistently the best university rugby team in the US) for the "World Cup" trophy (a competition started in 1921). The varsity XV is coached by Spence McTavish (former UBC varsity rugby captain, former Canadian rugby international and captain, and former Bobby Gaul award winner), and assistant coach Rod Holloway (former UBC varsity rugby scrumhalf, and former assistant coach of Canada's National Senior Men's team (RWC 1995)). UBC's rugby program has a long tradition of producing national team rugby players (7's and 15's), most recently Jim Douglas (RWC 2003), Mike Burak (RWC 2007), and Chris Pack. In the future, UBC's rugby program will have a chance to compete for a spot in the inaugural 2008 Canadian University Mens Rugby Championships in Markham, ON sponsored by Rugby Canada.

They have 3 sides:

A=Thunderbirds
B=Braves
C=Totems

Their A side plays Cal as noted above, and last year they handled Central Washington. I would say they are about the same standard as St Mary's. Not sure why they would want to be in the CPL to play the likes of Claremont, UCLA, Cal Poly, SDSU and UC Davis when they have plenty of better quality rugby within 50 miles of their campus.

It will be interesting to see when Cal has their matches with UBC. Do you think they will play UBC with their first side the same weekend when they send the frosh/soph and reserves to beat up UCLA and Claremont in the same weekend? What is Premiere about that?

Yea Claremont and ucla aren't exactly premier right now but they are better than Chico, sac st, Stanford, etc. It isn't going to be perfect but it's the best we got right now. Right?? Cmon, let's wait a few years before we start crapping on the biggest development ever for the country's most important competition.

ca congrats on being the most informed college rugby fan on this blog. I really don't care much about college rugby beyond my school and the league they play in but that would be "drek" rugby as they play in D-II but at least they don't always play in a park, sometimes they play on a privately owned rugby ground...Anyway ca you're a numbnut because you could have spent 10-15 minutes looking the information up yourself, you know the internet makes that sort of stuff really easy. UBC has done well the last two seasons in the Spray League (SL) in the fall finishing 4-2 but have really stunk up the joint in the CDI Premier League in the spring. In the fall, they play in a league with only mainland clubs then in the spring the CDIPL combines the SL with the Vancouver Island Elite League clubs. I would say even if the UBC first side dropped down to the BC DI League for the spring, they would get better competition then in PNW DI and it fact when they did in 2008 they finished 7-2. The fact of the matter is that the BC leagues are superior to anything American rugby can offer at this moment. SFU, well I know recant my early suggestion and believe they might send their first team to play in the PNW DI as they really haven't done so well. No I am not Canadian by any stretch, my family has roots in the US going back over 300 years...

@college

The members of USA Rugby have been doing the "let's support it and give it a chance" thing for decades. We did it with Arnott, with the current group of criminals, with RSL, with just about every new venture of rugby in the USA. 90% are a bust. RSL supporters can just STFU because it is nothing more than a competition. After all these years there is little or no sponsorship or broadcast revenue and teams dropping in and out year after year - and not because of promotion/relegation.

The CPL was the idea of a few that became a "let's all jump in the pool" situation with teams selling their soul to get in. I would love to have the transcripts of the conversations that allegedly went on. Promises that entry of "my" school meant access to big time pro sports money through "my" alumni association. Promises that "my" school's participation means big time TV opportunities because "my" school is a big time national collegiate sports brand. Promises that "my" school's administration will open the piggy bank for rugby if "my" school is in the competition. It was a total s#!t show that resulted in 31 teams and about 8 or 10 that are anything close to premiere. Just look at how little respect Cal, BYU and Utah have for their opposition offering to play two league games in one weekend. Notre Dame, Ohio State, Claremont, UCLA, Rutgers, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Arizona State, Colorado State, Wyoming, etc....really? They are going to spend more money traveling and they are going to get their a-holes served to them half the time. Some of these 32 teams are going to be in major retreat mode after a season of a$$ served to them.

UBC & SFU both have their own reasons for joining the Northwest Collegiate Rugby Conference in the Spring.

All Nine Div 1. Schools in our Conference want to have a competitive competition that attracts athletes to our game. We will all see how each program stacks up during the season, and give us something to build on.

My lord everyone must read the link above to the Kevin Roberts story. What an ass Roberts is. The 911 letter is disgusting. Public firings, bragging about his big bonuses, using his company position to moonlight for speaking fees.

You can tell he is hated as much at S&S as he is at USAR.

This guy is an epic asshole. Maybe that guys Burns would like to be the chairman of USAR.

Fire this mother, he is a turd.

UBC already plays many of the west coast college teams.

UBC won't play in the US national championships because they aren't from the USA. They will play college teams but they won't be wanted or needed in the USA national championship for obvious reasons.

What should happen is UBC, UVic and Simon Frasier should form with U of Calgary, U of Alberta, Mc Masters, Queens, McGill and the other dozens or so Canadian university a national championship and the winner should play the US national champion.

"UBC already plays many of the west coast college teams. "

Cal, UCLA & Central Washington does not equal many of the west coast college teams.

Man the travel in that CPL Schedule is tough...

I hope the teams that have so for competed mostly locally can back up what they signed up for.

"Doomed League" has raised the nay-saying art almost to the Spiro Agnewian level (nattering nabobs of negativity); but so much for historical allusions.

Nobody was coerced/induced to enter the CPL by promises of "big-time money". All we wanted was more regular-season "meaningful games" and an overall higher level of competition. "Doomed" doesn't know whereof he speaks. For most of us in the West, we already had to travel long distances to get any sort of competition, so the CPL travel isn't much, if any, different. A few clubs, like St. Mary's, will experience significantly increased travel expenses. Their trade-off is better overall competition.

Utah, BYU and Cal will continue, as in the past, to try to save $10,000 or so in their budget by playing two teams over 3 days once a year. For Cal, you're right. They don't need to travel to SoCal twice to play UCLA & Claremont when one weekend will do. For BYU and Utah, it's just economics. The CPL expressly gives teams the option of playing two teams in a weekend if they wish, to ameliorate the expanded travel costs of an extra week of potential playoff travel.

In the past, Cal, BYU and Utah and many others would almost always play two teams in a travel weekend to reduce costs. Now, with the CPL, that is happening much less during the regular season (though not in the pre-season). If there ever is "big-time" money from alumni or TV contracts, maybe even they will forgo the two-game weekends. Until then, they need to conserve funds wherever possible.

@ JC & the testicles

"A few clubs, like St. Mary's, will experience significantly increased travel expenses. Their trade-off is better overall competition."

HAHAHA! Better competition? UCLA, Claremont & Cal Poly are NOT better competition than Chico, Sac State and Stanford, which are in St Mary's backyard.

You don't know what you are talking about dude.

Come on, Claremont United is going to make a huge splash in the CPL. Afterall, they get to pull players from 5 different campuses. Not even Penn St. gets to do that.

@USA

Simon Fraser is in the NCAA and UBC is in the NAIA, both American college sports organizations. If they choose to, they would be allowed to compete for a USAR National Championship. It's really their choice. Depending on who you listen to on this blog, they may or may not be willing to do that. Congrats to the Northwest Collegiate Rugby Conference on being a pioneer by forming their own conference and thinking outside the box a bit and looking to Canadian teams to improve their conference. Job well done!

What are you talking about Doomed.

On an annual basis SMC will have 3 or 4 away matches. How hard is that? Some years local teams Cal and UC Davis will be among the away match schedule.

SMC already travels to Southern California, only now it will be for a league matches as apposed to friendlies.

Sorry your team didn't get in the premier league, but don't worry about SMC.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Subscribe

About Comments

  • Gainline.us values readers' thoughts and wisdom. While correspondents are encouraged to use given names, aliases in combination with a valid, publicly accessible email are acceptable. Profanity will be edited and unverifiable identities unpublished. Thanks to all who write in for helping to advance our collective understanding of American rugby, as it is and could be.

Corrections & Amplifications

  • Gainline.us values accuracy and fairness. If we fall short of the goal, we promptly correct errors or oversights. Strikethroughs denote text which has been replaced. *Asterisks* denotes text added after the initial post.
My Photo