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30 April 2009


If the ESPNU contract prohibits webcasting, how did they webcast 4 games from Sanford, FL two weeks ago?

If they want to hold back on the final games, that is fine but let the real fans watch the semis for all the divisions on webcast. What a waste. Now I am going to really have to find something to do at work tomorrow with no rugby to watch

You obviously were never much of a rugby player Kurt. All rugby players love night matches, and your jamboree comments are puzzling and idiotic at the same time. Congrats on that accomplishment.

or it could be that kurt doesn't like sitting in the rain at night because the D2 woman's final had to go off earlier in the day...Friday late afternoon/evening forecast for Palo Alto -

70° F

68° F

64° F

60° F

56° F

"an approach likely to dilute our best domestic 'product' in any number of ways, from field condition (too many curtain raisers) to atmosphere (afternoon barbeques replaced by blustery evenings)."

Kurt you are probably correct about field conditions due to have usage but you are way off base with atomsphere. Ask any NFL owner whether he/she would prefer a 1:00 pm kickoff to a 4:15 kickoff and I would bet my wife's income that he/she would say 4:15 pm. Why? Atomsphere is much better b/c fans have a longer time to fuel up and have the bbq in the parking lot. Overall the crowd is more boisterous and players feed off of this energy. Maybe it is too many years on the left coast with the niners kicking off at 1:00 pm or maybe it was going to an Ivy school were the pregame is all about what cheese goes best with which wine... or is it whine? (ok the last comment was just a ball buster)

Curtain raiser? Those early matches are not just the curtain raiser to your beloved Cal being anointed champions of mens college rugby. Those early matches are the championship matches for what I assume you see as the underclass of college rugby. Regardless of what you think, those kids worked their butts off to get to this event, and you should be ashamed of yourself to call their championship matches "curtain raisers" to your sacred Cal team. Grow up Kurt.

Players like playing evening games.
Fans like watching evening games.

Whoever signed off on the ESPNU agreement was an idiot. They probably overlooked the fine print, the "U" part of it.

On a lighter note, How would the current finals have panned out if regional competitions were adopted and the final 4 was played after School has been let out? These comps are flat weird and hinder the game.

I think regional matches are the right path forward for 3 reasons.

1) Teams can have home matches on college campuses and not at a balloon park or soccer complex in middle-of-nowhere Florida

2) Travel costs for teams would be reduced

3) The college athletes that play this game would not be expected to play 2 matches in 2 days. Proper recuperation would make for better quality.

Let's determine a Pacific, West, Midwest & East champion and then have a semi-final one week and the final the next week. For the first time we are going to have a USA Rugby employee feel the pain of playing 2 matches in 2 days. Dan Payne may very well find himself coaching SDSU in the final against Cal and realize his team blew their wad against BYU the day before when he faces a Cal side that most likely will be playing 12 or more fresh players.

A lot of people post here about not following the Commonwealth model when it comes to rugby. USA invented the 2 matches in 2 days format, and it is/was a stupid idea. This time the rest of the world has it right. Back-to-back matches are stupid.

Couldnt ESPN have put the championships LIVE on the "Ocho" or something? Waiting 3 freaking weeks to see the championship game, let alone 2 weeks for the belated highlights is bollocks.
It once again shows true to form that USA Rugby's Media/Marketing personnel couldnt get a passing grade in a High School class on the same subject. Freaking tractor pulls get better coverage!! Hard to believe they gave exclusive rights to ESPN and killed their podcast opportunity to show all the games live today online. I dont know how many congressman I have to write to get rid of these incompetents in Boulder, but I'm going to find out. This is ridiculous, as these guys are worse then Chrysler.
A side note, I became a USA Rugby donation supporter 6 months ago and still havent received jack from them!!! Incompetents!!!

Really David, you are complaining about getting rugby on TV? Would you prefer that ESPN not televise it so the small group of rugby fans can watch it on the web?

It is disappointing that ESPN has decided that the games should not be webcast, but it also shows an interest that they have in rugby, and that they think that webcasting would effect who watches it. That is a positive sign.

There will be lots of games on ESPNU, ESPN2 and I heard the Canada game will be on ESPN! That is all great progress for the game.

I'd have to concur with James. We finally get rugby on ESPN, and now we start picking apart the air dates, times, etc.?

I can see the progression. Once we get live matches, then it's going to be about the choice of commentators, camera angles, and how the sideline reporter wasn't hot enough...

Get over yourselves, gents.

James, damn right I'm complaining. I see billards shown live, darts shown live, and even freaking college SPRING inter-squad football was shown live on ESPNU. I am very happy that they're showing rugby on TV now, but I dont think I'm asking too much to see some major U.S. rugby events live. With the unlimited number of cable channels we have now, I dont think its unrealistic of me to want to see some of the matches live, or at least on the web. I'll disagree with you that there is only a small amount of rugby fans that would watch the matches on the web though. I think the numbers would be as good if not better then some of the Euro league basketball games they show on ESPN 360. ESPN SHOULD have a vested interest in rugby here in the states. They own the website scrum.com. A little same day coverage on one of their many media outlets couldnt hurt them. Be it college, XV's or 7's. You are correct, it is a positive sign for U.S. Rugby coverage, but with today's hundreds of media and webcasting options, its long overdue and USA Rugby sold themselves short with with their contract with ESPN.

Definite kudos to the IRB coverage for the under 20's in Kenya though. Those announcers are first rate and have great chemistry.

What if College Rugby or the Super League were run independently of USA Rugby?

Would we be waiting 3 weeks to see a match (that I can't get with my cable company anyway)?

Would we have back to back games and spend thousands flying to remote area away games?

Would this website even exist?

Kurt is correct on several levels.

The D2 men and women deserve their own event. A chance to be the stars, not the teams kicking off at 0 dawn hundred.

This is also not great for the D1 teams. It makes the timing of the matches all wrong. You folks are wrong if you think the teams want to play under the lights like some high school football kid. They want the best conditions possible and a cold night with lights isn't it. How does Army feel about kick off at 10pm EST? Not great I bet. How did St Marys feel about an Atlanta, Life College, 8 team regional with a 9am kick off? Not great I bet.

We are combinning these events because USAR is lazy. They don't want the work in staging events that make sense for the participants and for the markerplace. Just pure lazy. There is no cost to these college venues. Stanford, Cal, West Point, Navy, Life are all free to USAR, this is about being lazy.

From a sport marketing view this decision is even worse. Kurt is correct that D2 dilutes D1. Here's a good idea for USAR, how about a D2 game as a curtain raiser before the Churchill Cup, why no you say, of course not! The business princple is the same.

The USAR TV plan is stupid. They are only broadcasting the final with a highlight of day one.

They have already paid for the set-up they should broadcast the semi-finals as well. More product for the same buck.

Send these D2 rec games somewhere they can stand on their own feet. There must be a D2 college that would look forward to hosting such an event.

Move the match times to popular times for weekend outdoor sports and market the hell out of the event.

USAR fell into a great situation at Stanford. Under Melville's leadership the have diluted the event.

This is our best domestic product and Melville has turned it into a festival of crap. Interest down, crowds will be down and the cost are all bourne by the participates. Meanwhile USAR pockets the NG money. The joke will be on USAR when the NG wakes up and figures out they are getting screwed. The players and teams are dumb they keep coming back, but the sponsors have left and are leaving dodge.


An audio stream would be great.
Make Melville and Roberts do it, unless they are on vacation of course.

It makes sense, as both have an intimate knowledge of American Rugby and how to reach the masses. They both seem to have much free time available as well.

Maybe Eddie O'Sullivan can hold the microphone for them while they blab about curious things they have come across while on vacation - like knick knacks and what nots. They could do an audio-simulblog, where they blab about what nots and blog about where to get the best facials and mani-pedis.

USArFU is like the scaly carnival guy who winks at children.

I don't know why anyone is complaining. I followed the matches on Nigel's twitter feed and it was almost like I was watching them live. Of course he never mentioned the D2 men, but who really cares about them anyways?

I dont twitter. Dont want to. Twitter sounds like something you do to a womans nether regions before the main event.
Was the SDSU v BYU game a blowout after half, as the score suggests, or an exciting game, for anyone who was there or followed the twitter.
Thanks and cheers...

SDSU led at the half 13-5, I believe. BYU dominated most of the second half (according to twitter), but they scored most of their points in the last 10 minutes. Much closer game than the score would indicate. Oh, and the Baylor v Texas college baseball game on ESPNU right now is good as well.

Thanks Congress. I'm a S.D. native living in Texas and missed the game. Might have to catch that Big 12 Game though...

Followed Twitter as well. Enjoyed it, and took the edge off the fact that it wasn't broadcast.

Shouldn't a staffer be twitting instead of the big cheese? I'd rather see NM spend his energy on bigger picture items and relationships.

The Jamboree isn't working. Crowds were lighter for the main semi's which were held late. Today I watched one of the Divison two finals and there were maybe 150 people in attendence. This doesn't appear to work for any of the teams.

What is twitter?
Do men do this to each other?
Is it legal?
Will I feel guilty afterward?

I get confused, myspace, facebook, twitter, myface, twitbook, NA4, NA8, NA4, NA5.

This ESPNU thing really bothers me. Not so much from the USA Rugby side of things, they are doing what they need to do to get rugby on ESPN. But ESPNU is making a bad mistake here. The audience they should be targeting is the rugby public. If they broadcast these games live, I think the ratings would be pretty good because all the rugby fans in this country would tune in. Instead, they have college baseball and spring football games on ESPNU during these time slots. I just can't accept that the ratings for that programming would be better than for live college rugby final four games. But instead, they will show these matches on tape delay some 3 weeks later. For most of the college rugby fans, these games will be a distant memory and they won't tune in. I will probably turn it on just because I want the ratings to be good and I think I can pick up some good stuff from a coaching standpoint, but what about the average college player who is following the games on mobilescore now, but won't remember to tune in 3 weeks from now? And the end result will be poor ratings and ESPNU will think that its because there isn't an audience for this...UGH.

A REPLAY of the UGA spring football game is on ESPNU right now. Anyone who cared about this was either 1. at the game or 2. watched it or DVR'd it the first time ESPNU broadcast it. Cal-BYU absolutely would get better ratings than this, right? Or am I just delusional from hitting refresh on Nigel's twitter page a million times to follow the games live?

According to twitter, PSU women are beating Stanford women 12-7. According to ESPNU, Red and Black are tied at 3.

Following Cal / BYU on both NM Twitter and mobilescore... Interesting that NM has it 12-7 and Mobilescore still has it 9-0.

Wonder if mobilescore is going to mind it that the USAR CEO is now effectively competitor.

Hey marty. I'm just glad there is someone else out there as pathetic as me. 22 all with time running down!!!

Cal goes down to BYU and Kurt punches his wife and kicks his dog.

I won my pool!!! I also had Middlebury in D2!!!

Congrats to BYU, but half their team are imports and 25 years old, while Cal is a legit college team.

Adam Casias is 27. did he play today?

If that is the cae, then that is ridiculous.

Congratulations Polynesia. We weren't sure you could do it, but you did!

Cal did not lose this game because of Yellow or Red. Davey had a SHOCKER of a game, but that is not the reason they lost.

Cal is not about to blame the referee, even if there were stern words towards the referee in the post match wrap up.

BYU played well, and scored a try when they were TWO men down. That is how they won the game.

Let's not make this about the Cal staff claiming otherwise.

Claims are claims and the word is that the Cal coaching staff went off on match officials and if they weren't "protected" by their status in USA Rugby they would be written up by the ref society. It was described as a shocking lack of sportsmenship with a full measure of arrogance and entitlement.

Is it true that Billups had to be restrained by USA Rugby members when he confronted the match officials after Cal lost to BYU?

If the Cal coaches did confront the referee, then USA Rugby, the National Guard, ESPNU or whomever the hell is in charge of the college game need to penalize them. If the premier team in college rugby gets away with this, then we know that they too as in professional sports, have their own set of rules different of that of the other teams. This will be interesting to see what happens. And there should be no "heat of the moment" excuse. Not with this bunch.

This game could have been a springboard, but crossed wires and lack of foresight lead to lost interest and opportunity, again.

What once again could have been a springboard is muffled by USA Rugby leadership.

Sad that the boy in the plastic bubble is healthy and wants to play, but is kept under a wraps by the Queen Mother and the Roaming Gnome.

He slapped a guy?? WTF?

Did anyone just watched the U20's USA v Romania? Did Salty have any friggin game plan?? They looked like they were out there having a scrimmage at times. Continued ball handling mistakes, late to rucks, out of position, ill advised passes from the ruck, horrible throw in percentage and no real direction when they had the ball? Granted Romania took more dives than Manu Ginobli and got robbed of a try, but they at least looked somewhat organized when they had the ball in hand. It looked like our guys were trying to win with individual athleticism then with team ball. We had the thoroughbreds, but they wernt in any control. Was I the only one who saw this?

What the Hell are you talking about????

..."Also looking forward to Saturday's San Francisco Golden Gate-Chicago Lions game. To my mind, the winner becomes second favorites, behind inconsistent finals performer Belmont Shore, in the Super League title chase."

I guess the top two East teams (the current SL Champion and the statistically best performing squad) fit somewhere between 4 and 8?

Throw gasoline on fire much?

What a load of crap, all this is bloggerville rubbish. Billups did nothing but congratulation BYU, thanked the ref etc. All those that were there know.

They also know that one of the BYU staff turned toward the stands after the final whistle and gave the men, women and children in the stands the double "bird". Now that is class.

BTW - exactly who could Melville restrain ? Ha ha ha.

Cal was nothing but classy in defeat. After a brief moment of despair after the final whistle, the Cal team and staff, gathered to clap the victors off the field and congratulate them.

After a good 5 minutes of celebrating with the couple hundred fans that stormed the field, the BYU team realized they should probably acknowledge the defeated side and shake hands.

good to know. Good for Cal. The shock must have been devastating. Good on them for handling it like men. And BYU's celebration is understandable.

Is that coach giving the bird accurate? Ive heard and experienced some unclassy BYU moments in the past. That would be beyond the pale.

BYU can't play on Sundays but they can flip off the crowd? Seems inconsistent.

BYU has always been an arrogant team in their major sports. Even back in the WAC days. Them and their 26 year old sophmores.

Glad to hear that Cal wasnt how the bloggers described them. Didnt sound like something they would do.

Yes BYU staffer is confirmed by me. I was there and witnessed the guy, average by all means, flipping us off. wasn't the head coach but dress the same and on side lines.

I am no Cal fan, but thought the match was dirty.

Loads of stuff going in by the BYU players. So much for putting God first !?

How many of the starting line up will graduate from BYU ?

So let me get this straight. If you want to be the top college rugby team in the country you need to import a 9/10 pair from South Africa, a 26 year old wing from Fiji, a center from New Zealand and a few more Pacific Islanders in the pack to be the number 1 college side in the nation. That should be no problem for other schools to replicate. College rugby is on the way up!

Actually Joe Smith allows for flipping off of vanquished opponents if they arent mormon.

Time for the truth.

Kurt, should take down the lies posted here by the anon's.

Clark and Billups did not yell at the ref. They warmly congratulated the BYU coaches and players.

To my knowledge they had no interaction with Melville and said all the right things to the media afterward.

The match itself was a dirty affair. Several high short arms were thrown by BYU. The worse incident was a bloody bite, chunk of flesh missing, on Colin Hawley by the BYU fullback. This is the same guy yellow carded for later tackling Hawley in the air.

The ref was informed of the bite just before the second half. He walked over to BYU and gave them a warning.

BYU was penalized more than a dozen times for killing ball 10m out from their own goal-line. These were what you would call good penalties. They traded a few yellow cards for several tries. The ref was not up to dealing with BYU.

This match is going to be on TV. The fans of this site don't have to take anyones word on what happened, they can watch it for themselves.

One thing for sure, after the regional in Atlanta and finals at Stanford, BYU is the dirtiest team in the national. Good, but dirty.

Kurt is still punching his wife and kicking his dog because Cal lost.

"This match is going to be on TV. The fans of this site don't have to take anyones word on what happened, they can watch it for themselves."...

The game will have lost all meaning by then, I'll be doing something else.

I was also there fri & sat…Saturday’s match – while a really good match from a dramatic standpoint-- left a dirty taste in my mouth. First off, BYU was better than Cal – the score proved it. Much more dynamic, attacking, and creative, especially at the 9 & 10. BYU played a man down 40 minutes and 2 men down for 5 minutes and still was able to score. BYU was impressive in its will to win, especially in each 2nd half against SDSU & CAL – they wanted it more & took it, putting SDSU/CAL on their respective back feet & kept them there for the second 40 of each match. It didn’t seem like any of Cal’s centers could break the gainline in the second half. I also didn’t think Cal’s scrumhalf was dynamic enough – not enough of an offensive threat and his timing seemed off -- probably because of the pressure BYU brought, probably from having not played in a match in over a month. Cal’s pack seemed overmatched/outgunned save the beautiful rolling maul (lone) try in the second half. Overall though both Cal & SDSU ended up looking timid and cowed in the second half by the physicality that BYU brought. That said, BYU wins dirty. BYU’s #15 should have been red-carded for his in-air tackle & dump of Cal’s 13. Thorley has no place on a rugby field. His kicking for the finals in 06/07/08 was horrendous (and a prime reason why BYU won this year was he wasn’t kicking), & on Sat he couldn’t catch territorial kicks his way…he’s out there not to play rugby but to get away with whatever he could get away with. It was cool to see him & JC get into it as he was sent off w/ his yellow…that could have gotten ugly had JC taken a swing but it would have been richly deserved. Perhaps 2 of the ensuing yellows (not wrapping & a high tackle) were borderline calls by the match ref but he had to do something in order to control BYU’s escalating violations. Y’all may wish to see someone kill the king but I’m not sure BYU’s ascendance is for the best of college rugby. IMO, they win the wrong way; unfortunately this year their way was best.

I hope the TV broadcast picks up what JC said to Thorley after he was yellow carded for the under-cut tackle in the air, he said "you also bit him, do you want to bite him again?". Then Thorley says, "you talkin to me", then proceeds to make an ass of himself with the crowd.

Thorley is a punk, I don't think he's a good representative of the BYU team. I think BYU play hard and on the edge, but I wouldn't call the team, aside from the biter, dirty.

Here's the question, if a Mormon bites you, do you need to get the normal medical shots? Or do they have a cleaner mouth?

We hear a lot about the USA way on this board and that the commonwealth way is all wrong. I am sorry to say that this final was the USA way for a collegiate rugby championship, and not the commonwealth way. I have seen "school boy rugby" finals in Wales, Ireland, South Africa and England, and the main draw is the spirit of the match and the excitement of seeing young talent displayed in a raw state with the potential to later pull on the national jersey (i.e Brian O'Driscoll at Blackrock College). These are nations where every weekend you can see cynical rugby in the Guinness Premiership, Magners League, etc with professional penalties, player intimidation (i.e. eye gouge in HC semi in Dublin this past weekend), etc, but these tactics are not taught or accepted at the college age group. One reason may be that the kids are really still kids. You are not going to find a 26 year old play at a college in any of these nations.

Is it really good for USA collegiate rugby to become a place where the team that learns the dark arts best (or imports them and plays 26 year old men) a good thing?

Enough of the "they are so much older" BYU/LDS bashing here.

Yes, their players have a higher average age than most colleges, but they also take two years of their lives in service of their faith. Having many friends who are Morman, I can assure you they aren't working outor playing ball during those missions. And they are still real college students, not like you average NCAA basketball player.

Almost every college side has a GI bill player who served his country for 4 years and then came to college.

Congrats to BYU. Congrats to Cal, who woke up Sunday morning the overwelming favorites for 2010.

You hit the nail on the head.
Cal has barely played in the last month.

While I think the playoff structure is absolutely ridiculous, the top teams seem to enjoy the format.

Where I live, 80% of the teams were finished by the end of March. This devalues the game and limits growth.

I hope our competitions chair does a better job sorting out the MNT than putting together a positive Spring sport.

My prediction is the top college teams will start their own competition. USAR can't start a college super league, they can't even get out of their own way.

I don't think the top schools trust USAR to run anything. Look at whats happening currently, the teams pay all the costs and USAR makes all the money off sponsorships and events, which they spend on the CEO and Eagles. Oh yea, the top teams can also apply for a set of jerseys.

Only the dumb-ass schools and coaches would wait for the competitions committee to sort anything out. These are lame individuals which man these committees, with few skills for the task.

BYU, Cal, Army, San Diego State, Navy, Air Force, Penn State, Dartmouth, 8 other like named colleges with good teams.

Let K-town, South African State University of Arkansas and like schools fight it out for the USAR championship. Big ass USAR event with D3 Women kicking off at 7:30am with the big final game at midnight.

Meanwhile the new comp is an exciting, brand name, venture with media and TV.

Melville had to be sitting their twittering going what the fuck have I been doing for the last three years. I'm the biggest dumb-ass on the planet. Meanwhile chairman Roberts is waiting for the TV rerun.

Colleg SL is coming and many else need to stop saying Kutztown is some sort of South African import team. They are not. Doc Jones has taken a program at a small school and turned it into something special. He has done it the right way. There are only 3 SA players on that team (Im pretty sure). Marco Barndard and the brothers Dirk and Raul. All friends. Have they been great players for Ktown? yes. But the rest are fully american and this isnt some sort of every year thing. So stop degrading Doc's and Ktown's accomplishments with this nonsense. You are crapping on a college program that is doing it the right way and should be praised for it

I for one would like to see college rugby be exactly that...college kids playing rugby. For most college teams that is what exists, but it is becoming clear that the teams that do not get the support from their university that Cal does (i.e. part of the Athletic Department) are going to import foreign born players (k-town, Ark State, BYU) and play guys that are over 25 years old. I think some of the parents of HS rugby players that were at the Cal v BYU match summed it up perfectly. "If college rugby is about men playing boys and unfair play, I'm going to push my son to play lacrosse or further pursue water polo scholarships at small universities." There you go...scare the parents that support HS rugby and your future will be bright.

I can care less about the LDS and their magic underpants and multiple wives. It's a cult and USA Rugby should just say we do not observe any religious requests with regards to scheduling rugby matches. If someone has a reason not to play, that is their decision solely. Period. What are we going to have next an Islamic women's team playing in burkas?

someone needs to post a pic of the bit on hawley. that needs to be seen by everyone in USA Rugby. Thats just what we need as an emerging sport. A Mike Tyson style team doin crap like that

It happens in Iran.

16 total teams at Stanford. Why did the 4 D2 womens teams, 4 D2 mens teams and 4 D1 womens teams need to play Friday/Saturday?

So, the USA Rugby collegiate final featured the two best college rugby teams in the nation. One is Cal. A team that this season had one of their players suspended for using racist language during a match, and the other BYU who wins the match with thug rugby performed by a bunch of foreign born players including some over 25 years old. Is this what we want?

The bite was on Hawley hand, between his thumb and fingers. Several bloody teeth puncture wounds.

The Cal captain, took Hawley over to the ref, but I guess there isn't anything the ref can do if he doesn't see it.

Word is Cal won't press the issue. I think they feel this is just how BYU is. They get multiple cards for dangerous play in most every match. I think if Cal had won, they would have requested a review of the bite, but since they lost they don't want the impression of being sore losers. So this guy will get away with it.

BYU also have some great fans and some of the worst fans on earth. I couldn't believe the stuff they were yelling at the Cal players, Ref, even yelling stuff at the Cal fans. This pious LDS stuff is a load of garbage.

If BYU is the option to Cal, I'll become a Cal fan. At least the Cal way is in line with what I think the majority of USA Rugby members paying CIPP dues see as what is going to be a proper college rugby program. The trend by a number of college teams that are bringing in foreign players and playing guys that are 25+ is a direct result of seeing the success that BYU has had doing that. Now that BYU has added thug rugby to their kit bag with success, look for that to be the new trend in college rugby. I would have loved to hear the BYU coach address the team before the game. "These guys are just kids 19 or 20 years old, so let's go into rucks with the knees flying and push the limit of the law with dangerous tackles. If we put a fright in them, they will cower. They are just a bunch of college kids for Christ sake!"

I've watched BYU's arrogance and lack of class for the last 25 years in the WAC and MWC. BYU's lack of class and playing outside the rules doesnt surprise me. I wont even start on how BYU has softened their recruiting mindset and got whomever they could grab to win titles. Think Tark's UNLV teams in Provo. They're only a church school in name only, as it doesnt apply to their fans and Oakland Raider-esque foulplay.

Somewhere in the Pacific Islands and New Zealand the next generation of BYU rugby stars are entering high school, and training hard with their coaches and team mates. BYU, what a rugby program!

Who was the ref?

Kiwi named Dave something. Not a bad ref, but BYU got the better of him and therefore Cal. I think he was trying not to card BYU for so long, then once he did, they just kept giving up penalties. He then had the choice of sending a second and third player off at the same time, which was called for, but no ref wants to do that.

My memory is something like a dozen or more penalties inside the red zone. This is why Cal had all those 3 pointers.

Interesting to hear the BYU fullback (biter) tell ERN, he knew Hawley was in the air but hit him anyway, then goes on and shares how BYU likes to play on the edge and they are use to playing with players in the bin.

Well KIWI Dave didn't have the guts to sort them out, which is too bad for the sport really.

re: "Not a bad ref, but BYU got the better of him and therefore Cal."
not sure i agree - here's the problem, despite all the penalties given up by BYU, yellow cards issued to BYU, and converted penalty kicks (save for the last 2 that mattered) by Cal, BYU still won despite playing a man down for 40 minutes & scoring a try with 2 men down...so you can't pin this on the ref: cards were rightfully awarded 4x for foul play- Cal failed to execute & score tries off the many BYU penalties while BYU raised their game despite (because of?) the many penalties against it. that's why i say, watch out: if BYU can be dinged repeatedly, play a man down 1/2 the match, and win, they have no incentive to change how they play - they won playing dirty ("to the edge of the laws") & it worked/works for them.
Whatever is said about how BYU plays/whether the ref could have done more, BYU was the better team out there, knucklehead/goons like BYU#15 nonwithstanding...

You are both correct.

Not very Cal like of Cal, to have not better take advantage of BYU being a man down.

And the ref was a shocker. He looked to more worried about his evaluation than doing his job. I also think the BYU crowd got to him. He lost his nerve in the end. The penalty in the scrum he whistled Cal for which won the game for BYU was fantasy. Cal pushed BYU in just about every scrum of the match for 78 mins and he calls a penalty with 2 mins on the clock in front of the posts? The big fat BYU prop comes off his feet because he was getting ass kicked. The ref just needed to reset the scrum, instead he hands BYU the game.

As you mention ECM, fair enough, Cal hadn't made very good use of the BYU cards, so there you have it. Ref was bad, Cal wasn't very good and BYU are the national champs.

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