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20 May 2012

Comments

Having attended both national championship finals at Rio Tinto I was struck by how many fewer fans there was this year, even with BYU going for a championship.

USAR moved two more championship finals to RT, the college final four of the D1AA and D3 championship. These two competitions to accompany the HS single school and U-19 club.

Five championships and there are over 4000 fewer fans than 2011.

USA Rugby's role in the event management has to come under examination. Two more competitions, which total five at a single venue and a 30% decline in attendance is note worthy.

Id say the absence of Cal fans account for much of that loss.

It was a very pro BYU crowd when Cal beat BYU in 2011. I doubt Cal had 500 fans much less 4000.

True. Big schools travel better than small schools. This is why the BCS football system requires the invited schools to purchase a certain number of tickets. Schools like Pitt and Syracuse are usually left with a surplus of tickets since their fans don't travel like Tennessee or Texas fans. If they can't meet that requirement they are either not invited or left holding the bag.

I think the only other college championship event that takes place in one location regardless of qualifying teams is the College World Series in Omaha, NE. But then again, they probably draw a large fan base from the local population.

The reason why the crowd was smaller was because less BYU fans were there than last year. The narrative of Cal besting BYU multiple times in a national championship game (5 of 6?) wasn't there and ASU was an unknown opponent that probably wasn't rated very high by neutral fans. Bottom line it wasn't a must see event for BYU fans.

^This

Cal Poly beat BYU in the 2004 quarters and Cal beat Poly in the championship. Utah beat BYU in the 2005 semis and Cal beat Utah for the championship. Cal beat BYU in the 2006, 2007, 2008 championship match, while BYU won their first championship in 2009 beating Cal in the final. Cal again won back to back titles in 2010 and 2011 against BYU, with BYU defeating Ark St in 2012.

BYU has won 2 of the last 9 championships, Cal 7 of 9.

AFA beat Cal in 2003. Cal won in 2002, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1998, 1997, 1996, 1995, 1994, 1993, 1992, 1991.

AFA has won 1 of the last 22 national championships. BYU 2 of 22. Cal 19 of 22.

AFA won back to back titles in 1990 and 1989. Cal won in 1988. SDSU won their only title in 1987. Cal won back to back titles in 1986 and 1885. Harvard won their only title in 1984. Cal won the first four national championship titles in 1983, 1982, 1981 and 1980.

Harvard has won 1 of 33 national championships played. SDSU 1 of 33. BYU 2 of 33. AFA 3 of 33. Cal 26 of 33.

Note: BYU competed in the national championships 1980-1990 and from 2003-2012.

Whoop-te-do!

The ultimate asterisk - Cal dropped out of the competition when their dominance began to be challenged.

I don't believe your facts re: BYU are correct. BYU never competed for the championship before 2004, since the finals were held on Sunday. So, of the 9 years they have competed, they won twice and finished second five times.

Classless - thats the only way to describe the booing of the ASU team whenever they scored. No wonder no one likes BYU!

@Playoff Observer

In a different thread you were outed as Paul Meyer the long time BYU supporter and photographer. If this is true you should know you are lying. BYU did indeed participate in the old PCRFU championships which lead to the national collegiate championships. The PCRFU qualifier was a Fri-Sat event which BYU always qualified for, but never won under old coach John Seggar. Competed but never won.
BYU's own Wiki site list their USAR 1999 quarter final appearance, where they only just beat Arizona, then choose not to advance. In the early 80's BYU even hosted the PCRFU qualifier to the national college championship and failed to win. Even with the great kiwi Ormsby's. BYU were beaten each time they qualified. UCSB held many such PCRFU tournaments where BYU fell short. BYU made the PCRFU title their national championship. They wanted to win it and withdraw, but they could never win the right. The current BYU team is well stocked and better than their early teams, but it is incorrect to say BYU didn't start competing for the championship until 2004. They tried many times to make a statement in the nationals but weren't good enough to qualify until 1999 when they beat a lowly ranked Arizona team in the quarters and withdrew. Beat a team in a single elimination tournament, then decide not to advance, yep. Sometimes the BYU supporter tell a story that begins and ends with the Cal v BYU matches in 2006. They always fail to mention CPSLO and Utah both beating BYU in 2004-05 national championships.

BYU is a great team, but don't attempt to change history on an internet comment section.

Classless

I was at the game...there wasn't booing. In fact, it went dead quiet after ASU scored their second to last try.

The crowd cheered loudly for ASU when they were given the runner-up medals. It was a great event coupled with two great teams playing great rugby, shame on you for tarnishing it.

Grant Cole known for doing nothing in rugby other than a bad Texas blog and some worse coaching, please tell us where all the asterisks belong.

Belmont, OMBAC etc for pulling out of the RSL? How about the many state HS teams which don't send a team to the HS nationals because they prefer a state championship? Dartmouth, San Diego St and Tennessee for pulling out of the premier and playing in the D1-AA final four? USAR for eliminating the All-American/TU tournament? Texas A&M for dropping from the D1-A?

Whatever Grant. Just update your out-of-work linkedin ad every so often.

idk if they booed when ASU scored, but they certainly weren't silent during the pen/conv kicks. Which I am fine with. They should be treated just like field goals and extra points. Distract away.

I definitely prefer the English tradition of respecting the kicker. Having a crowd go completely silent while the visiting team attempts a penalty kick is the ultimate in sportsmanship. But I don't see that catching on here. They distract the kicker in France and New Zealand.

If you want rugby to catch on with the average American, I think you are asking for a lot to want them to adopt a foreign tradition like that. Sportsmanship can live on in American rugby as it does in every American sport when the entire crowd claps off an injured player.

The American rugby sportsmanship tradition is quickly becoming the act of one team doing the Haka after the game as the other team looks on. Happen 3 or 4 times in SLC this past weekend including after the BYU game. Pretty pathetic and grotesque if you ask me.

Oh, I realize the silence at penalty kicks would probably never catch on here. It's just something special about rugby that it happens where it does. Could you imagine a silent crowd in Boston as the Lakers take a free throw for the win? Never gonna happen.

@PCRFU Old Board
BYU would/could never have played for a national championship since they were played on Sunday. You know as well as I do that no team representing BYU will ever play on Sunday, since there is a written institutional policy against such play.

If they played for a PCRFU championship but didn't win it, it's irrelevant, since they could/would never have played in the finals and thus couldn't win. And, as I have heard the story, despite many appeals by the team, the USAR management told them it wasn't in its interest to change the championships to Friday/Saturday for economic/educational reasons.

It's very charitable of you to allow them to compete for a PCRFU championship which they never won, but obviously went along with the policy of excluding them from the REAL championships should they have become eligible.

Starting in 2004 they were eligible to win the championship, since the finals were scheduled on Sunday. Since then, the team has either improved dramatically or understandably has started taking winning a national championship more seriously or maybe both. I've only been shooting the team since 2006, so I don't know much about the competition before that.

And, since I'm using my name here, why don't you use yours? I'd love to be introduced to someone who knows his history as well as you.

Correction. I meant that starting in 2004 the championships were scheduled on Saturday, not Sunday.

USA Rugby did not exclude BYU from the "REAL championships". USA made a reasonable decision on the days to hold the championship, and if BYU's principles were more important than the title (as one's principles ought to be) then that was BYU's choice.

Unless that policy was done with the intent to exclude BYU, then that sort of language and the victim mind-set that it conveys is ludicrous.

Unless there is a schedule change, BYU will never win a Women's NCAA Basketball title. Do you think that the NCAA is excluding WCB?

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