BYU 49 Arkansas State 42 (Ht: 29-15 BYU)

(Sandy, UT) BYU defeated Arkansas State in a 49-42 shootout to win the 2012 D1-A National Championship, emerging from Rio Tinto Stadium with the program's second-ever title and an undefeated 17-0 record for the season.

Arkansas State leapt to an early 8-0 lead by capitalizing on BYU errors, with a penalty kick from fullback Joe Cowley *flyhalf Pat Sullivan* and a try from center Dean Gericke. The Cougars were quick to respond with an 11th minute try from Kumi Tua'one, as the flanker literally pulled the defense across the try line to break into the corner. BYU scored again just three minutes later with a coordinated effort from its skilled backline, as center Paul Lasike connected with fullback Tua Laei to finish the run and bring the score to 15-8.

The Red Wolves took advantage of a lineout deep in Cougars' territory, spinning the ball wide to Zac Mizell - the speeding center was met by a BYU tackler, but scraped the line to score. Sullivan booted the conversion through the uprights to tie the match in the 21st minute, 15-15.

Both squads were ferocious at the breakdown, offering no quarter as they rucked and jockeyed for territory. BYU's mammoth forwards bruised their way upfield, giving scrumhalf Shaun Davies the field position he needed for a self-converted try in the 37th minute. Moments later, the Cougars' pack won possession to feed Laei for what looked like a long-distance try, before the fullback set up wing Will Taylor for the score. Davies hit the conversion to effectively close the half, 29-15.

Arkansas State opened the second round with a 41st minute penalty goal - referee Arun Ranaweera pinged BYU after an infringement at the ruck, and steel-nerved Sullivan landed the kick. The dueling flyhalves accounted for two tries in three minutes: BYU's Dylan Lubbe had a breakaway run and offloaded to Lasike for a score, while ASU's Sullivan broke two tackles to land the Red Wolves' third try of the match. Davies would slot another penalty, pushing the score to 39-23 at the 56th minute.

BYU kept up the pressure. Davies popped the ball to prop Mikey Su'a, who trucked an ASU defender en route to a lunging try for the highlight reel. Davies went five for six on conversions, nailing the kick to bring the score to 46-23 with just under twenty minutes left. (Su'a would later be chosen as man of the match.)

The Red Wolves fueled their comeback with two tries in the next ten minutes: the talented Mizell showcased his touch and body control in his second crossing of the try line, while winger Dale Bates struck through to dot the posts. Sullivan converted just Bates' try (he would go three for six on the day) and at 46-35, Arkansas State went on the all-out offensive in chase of the title. 

Davies slotted his third penalty with five minutes left, totaling 24 points on the day - just about half of BYU's total offense. The cushion would prove unnecessary, as A-State was kept from assembling the two tries they needed, even in injury time- there was just one heroic, last-gasp effort from flanker Steyn Benade, who landed under the posts at the 80th minute. Sullivan slotted his final conversion, but time was up: with that, BYU had their second national title, winning by the score of 49-42.

BYU Cougars

Tries: Kumi Tua'one, Tua Laei, Shaun Davies, Will Taylor, Paul Lasike, Mikey Su'a
Conversions: Shaun Davies (5/6)
Penalties: Shaun Davies (3/3)

Arkansas State Red Wolves

Tries: Dean Gericke, Zac Mizell (2), Pat Sullivan, Dale Bates, Steyn Benade
Conversions: Pat Sullivan (3/6)
Penalty goals: Joe Cowley *Pat Sullivan* (2/3)

Attendance: 8,733 (official)
Referee: Aruna Ranaweera (USA Rugby)

Comments

[Great rugby]

Watched the replay on ESPNU. That was a very very well-played rugby game.

[Red]

Had Sullivan not kicked that penalty out on the full, I think ASU would have scored from the lineout and then might sneaked the win.

[MattD]

What a great game for TV! Here's hoping others at ESPN saw the same thing I did and maybe next time we wont have to pay for our own production costs.

[Jenny C]

The tackling was very poor from both teams. There were also too many overweight players on both teams. Did I hear Su'a was the man of the match? Why, what did he do, except walk around? Davies was BYU's best player.

[D2]

How many South Africans between both teams? High of 12, low of 10?

A third of of the players are South Africans and US college rugby is taking a bow? Really?

[Curious]

Jenny C Who is overweight?

[Ragby]

If the tackling was perfect during a game, it would be a very boring rugby game. Somtimes guys force breaks. Tackles are not automatic.

Su'a is unquestionably overweight. If you want to know why he hasnt been looked at for the Eagles, there is your answer. If he got down to 275, he'd have a shot. Making a few big runs, and hitting a few rucks, does not make an international quality prop.

And if he was so dominant in the scrums, he'd be playing tighthead. A 300lb loose head? ood grief.

[I'm Ron Burgundy?]

Jenny C - You sound like a like a pissed off man-hater who's mad that the women didnt get equal TV time. "The tackling was poor" ...said the slow woman "with a small brain. with a brain a third the size of us. it's science..."

[Grant Cole]

That was a great game. Saying "the tackling was poor" is a bit short-sighted. There were several great tackles and several more good tackles that got broken up by better ball runners.

Mikey Su'a? Overweight for the next level? Maybe so. But he did play a full match. If he dropped 30-40 pounds, though, he'd be a terror everywhere on the pitch!

Pat Sullivan was impressive. If he and BYU's Davies took the field together, the fear of their collectives boot potential could open up holes in many a defense.

That pair with a backrow of Benade, Lasike, & Roundy?

A viable All-American squad would be remiss without 17 players just from this match alone. This was much better than watching Cal v Anyone else...

[SA-ASU and NZ-BYU]

South Africans in the game that I'm aware of:

BYU- Davies, Lubbe
ASU- Wessels, Benade, Patterson, Potgeiter, Gericke, Swaniepoel. I think there may have been another one as well.

BYU also had Lasike and Forrester who are Kiwis and I believe Kofe, Leaaetoa, Tilialo, and the fullback whose name I cannot recall are all also foreign. Although Leaaetoa and Forrester are in the Eagles pool, so I guess they are now eligible by residence.

I'm sure if I've misstated anything here that someone will correct me.

[Cougar Blue]

This was much better than watching Cal v Anyone else...

Posted by: Grant Cole | 23 May 2012 at 10:33

Grant what's with your little hard on for Cal. You can't make a comment without taking a shot at them. The Bears aren't my team to support, but you sound like a petty person with an axe to grind.

I can't imagine Cal caring one way or the other if Grant Cole likes to watch them play.

[D2]

So there were 9 not 10 saffers, with the total foreign players at 15+, half the players. Go USA!

[Sergeant Hulka]

Su'a is waaay overweight for the next level. Look at Cian Healey of Leinster for the modern prop. Even Mike McDonald is too fat for the modern game.

[Sergeant Hulka]

Don't forget the ASU scrumhalf is from Japan. Not that it matters. How many foreign Olympians are on college swim teams in the USA? Too many to count.

[guest]

Fyi Joe Cowley plays for Life not ASU...It was Sullivan who took the pk's

[college]

What is Pat Sullivan? Cant possibly be American.

[Look Around]

That is a very true observation Hulka. If you look at many sports like track, swimming, tennis, etc. you see quite a number of foreign athletes on elite teams around the country. For a while Jamaica literally sent every good runner they had to the states for training. That has changed recently, but the point still stands: this is not unique to rugby even if the ratio may be higher in rugby currently.

[Eagle Supporter]

@Hulka

The number of foreign Olympiads in college sports doesn't matter because USA dominates those Olympic sports. The foreigners are not ringers, but rather just filling in the numbers and getting some of the best coaching in the world. Not even worth mentioning with the context of this conversation.

[college]

It actually is relevant. If foreigners are able to compete for spots on rosters in other sports, then there is no reason they can't in rugby. Whether it is good for "american rugby" is irrelevant. College rugby has no obligation to develop national or olympic teams. Those organizations do. Putting that aside, I believe it actually does help American rugby because it raises the level of play. You learn more when you play against better opponents. Playing against crap just reinforces bad habits and gives players/teams a false sense of confidence in their abilities.

[Facts]

USC vs UVA in NCAA tennis final. Each has 50% international players. UTenn 50%, Cal 50%. Some SEC teams up to 90%. Yawn.

[college]

It's ironic. Many claim the only way for us to get better in rugby is to play the best international teams or send our players abroad. But when that quality comes to our shores and makes that level of play available without having to go anywhere, it is suddenly a bad thing.

[Eagle Supporter]

In swimming, tennis, track & field and a few other college and Olympic sports the best USA products are not going to college. The influx of foreign athletes attending universities and competing is not hurting the overall goal to develop USA athletes for higher competitions.

If every college rugby match has 15+ players who are foreign, and playing all the skill positions, then unless they plan to make themselves available to the Eagles through IRB residence rules we are not developing new talent for the Eagles.

Do I care? Not really, because the Eagles are not going to be a tier 1 nation for at least 20 years. Hell, they are going to struggle to get in the 2015 RWC and stay in the top 20 as more and more nations poor government funds into their national teams.

[college]

When we get to that point, I'll agree with you. Until then, imo the benefits outweigh the negatives.

[guest]

@college Pat Sullivan is from mokena, Illinois just outside Chicago which also happens to be the hometown of Life U's Kyle Grossheider a xvs and viis AA himself.

[RWC 2051!]

Please...Uruguay hasn't closed the gap that much. As in 2011, qualifying is still basically going to come down to beating Uruguay in a two-match series.

[Sevens]

Any good reason why USA Rugby limits senior club teams to five non-US players but does not have any limit at the college level?

[Eagle Supporter]

We'll get an idea where both the Eagles and Uruguay are at in the next month. Eagles play Georgia, Italy and Canada in June. They should win 2 of these matches if they are going to "coast" to a 2015 RWC qualification.

Uruguay is playing in the Nations Cup this June with matches against Romania, Portugal and Russia. If they can win 2 of 3, I would say they are going to be a threat.

[RWC 2051!]

I think beating Georgia is realistic, beating Canada is plausible but unlikely, and beating Italy is a pipe dream.

I can't see Uruguay taking two of these three matches. Looking at what is going on right now in the South American championship, Chile beat Brazil 19-6 and Argentina (pretty much a B side, though the players are being capped) beat Brazil today 111-0. Currently, with about 15 minutes left, Chile is leading Uruguay 23-21.

So maybe it'll play out that we have to win a series against Chile...

[RWC 2051!]

Uruguay won 27-26.

[Sergeant Hulka]

sevens:
My best guess is that they can't dictate who plays for any university. Same as they can't dictate how old a college player is. Once you are enrolled in a college, you have the right of full enjoyment of all university activities. Limiting roster spots on a club, or varsity sport, would be discriminatory. I'm sure there are legal reasons why it's okay for clubs since every national union does it.

[college]

Wow, so Pat Sullivan is one of the rare elite American 10s at the college level. Awesome. Needs to drop a little weight, but he's a fine player.

[Jenny C]

"drop a little weight" yea like 25 lbs. Swear, never seen so many fat rugby players between these two teams. Please boys, keep those shirts on and the team calender is off the fund raising projects list.

[age limit]

Why do people believe there can't be an age limit in college sports? There are age limits in a few NCAA sports, in fact I believe that the new college director cited those examples as a basis for the revamped college eligibility rules that are apparently never going to see the light of day.

[Buffalo Gals wont you come out tonight?]

Jenny C:

Like women's rugby players belong on a calendar?

I've never seen so many disgusting cows as I've seen in a Women's Rugby Club fundraising calendar. I guess it doesn't matter... none of them are straight!

[Sergeant Hulka]

Age Limit: your point is? Are there age limits or not? There are age limits, but they'll never see the light of day?

[Jack Sparrow]

I think the hold up is because USAR is concerned about Mormon lawyers. And the lawyered up LDS crowd will now surely be joined by the AARP cardholders at Davenwood and Lindenport.

[Working Class Rugger]

The US U20s have just overcome their Canadian counterparts. Surely that's something to be happy about?

[Eaglebauer Enterprises]

Well, I'm sure there are plenty of negative people around here who will find something to complain about, but as Vince Lombardi* said, "Winning is better than losing".

*Cue someone pointing out that I'm an idiot because rugby has nothing to do with football.

[Playoff Observer]

@SA-ASU and NZ-BYU
Seki Kofe is from Oregon, as is Hynie Leaaetoa. And the fullback, Tua Laei is from Hawaii, as is Malosi Te'o (who came in at wing).
It's interesting how many folks feel a need to complain about kids of Samoan or Tongan descent who are actually American citizens, either born or naturalized. And both Shaun Davies (Durban, S.A.) and Ray Forrester (Maori from N.Z.) are trying out for the Eagles this summer. So, as far as I can tell, these kids ARE ALL helping raise the quality of top-tier U.S. rugby and adding to the Eagle pool.

[Can't have your cake and eat it too....]

Age Limit-You cite the NCAA as a source where there are age limits for certain sports. The problem with using the NCAA as an example is that colleges/unis are part of and formed the NCAA...USA Rugby on the other hand is an outside entity, in other words colleges are not part of it and had no role in it's founding. The other aspect of this is that 99.9% of college rugby teams are club sports that are 99% founded by student fees...you can't restrict access to student clubs founded by students. The schools point of view is you can't restrict anyone whether they are over 22 or black or asian or white or gay or students from a certain part of the country. Not gonna happen under the current format. Some of you out there need to get past the whole age thing because it isn't going to go away. USA Rugby lost this battle in the 1990s.

[Not applicable]

"The other aspect of this is that 99.9% of college rugby teams are club sports that are 99% founded by student fees...you can't restrict access to student clubs founded by students." This is the most idiotic statement I've seen, and it keeps getting repeated here. USA Rugby's eligibility rules already limit who can be eligible to play college rugby in a manner that is counter to the all-inclusiveness of club sports that you cite here. Part-time students are not eligible. Grad students are eligible only in limited circumstances. Players can't play past 5 years from entering college. All of these are limitations (modelled after similar NCAA limitations) that prevent kids from competing for a national championship who are otherwise allowed to play on their school's rugby team by the school. The school I coach at allows me to cut players from the team. That certainly seems like restricting access to the student club founded by students. An age limit may be torpedoed by the LDS, but it's not going to be prevented because of the reason you state above.

[level the field]

Amen N/A, well said.

There is wayyy too much bad info around this age issue.

The BYU's and Davenport's aren't going to have their way in the end. The other schools are sick of the slanted field in the favor of these two teams.

This is a competitive and safety issue.

[Sergeant Hulka]

Part-time students aren't eligible to have dorm rooms either. A 5 year participation limit has no bearing on age. We had a 24 year old freshman who was an Army veteran on my team. Grad student are eligible to play NCAA sports as well. The Baylor quarterback (Griffin?) was in grad school last fall during the season. Colleges don't want undergrads enrolled for longer than 5 years anyway. It counts against their graduation rate.

[Thomas Payne]

Probably should be differing eligiblity regulations for the Divisions of college rugby. If the pro league wants 26 year old dudes playing then they can amend the regulations to allow it. In the lower divisions a team full of 25+ year old players is dangerous for the traditional college rugby club.

[Ragby]

Pro league?

[John Adams]

The best way for college rugby to do this is for conferences to leave USA Rugby and set up their own rules.

[Playoff Observer]

@Thomas Payne
Do you have some safety statistics to quote that shows that your 16 year old freshmen are more likely to be injured when playing against 25-75 year old men? No? I thought not.

The world over, as soon as they qualify by reason of their ability, players can play on the international stage as professionals at the highest (or any other) level as men. It's not uncommon for 19 year-olds to compete in international matches to represent their country.

It's not College BOYS, as I remember it, it's College Men. I would be really offended if you thought you needed to protect me from older players. I'm guessing that BYU plays more freshmen and sophomores (17-19 year olds) in championship matches than any other team does. Because a player is big and strong, he's not more likely to injure me if I use correct technique, and am also a well-conditioned (in the weight room) athlete.

The only target of this age-limit legislation is BYU (and, maybe, Davenport). Unless you can actually come up with safety statistics, you'll never be able to defend your thesis that their older players are dangerous to anything other than your record and ego. I suggest you give up on your anti-age rant.

[Sergeant Hulka]

I just watched an 18 year old wing on Toulon bulldoze half the Toulouse backline. The FFR is putting him straight into the full national side, forgoing any U-20 or U-23 tests. The college 'boys' should be hitting the gym!

It seems the majority opinion here is to level the playing field either by not letting 'other' schools go varsity (Davenport, Lindenwood and Life) or limiting the age of players (BYU). Are there seriously THAT many socialists rugby fans in the USA? It's not unfair that DU and LU are varisty any more that it's unfair that LSU and Alabama get the best football recruits. Just get better, dammit!

[Eagle Supporter]

If age and experience doesn't matter, why did Davenport go out and seek guys playing men's rugby that were interested in going to college? Guys like Demecus Beach and Lance Cavanaugh who graduated HS in 2006 - one of them has a family - and were playing men's rugby. Age matters. Experience matters.

[Eagle Supporter]

The reason why collegiate eligibility is not reformed or changed is summed up in the following quote:

“The legal review started a couple of weeks ago when David Smyth told me of some concerns he had about them,” said USA Rugby CEO Nigel Melville. “He was getting some feedback from his school, some thoughts, and we passed them onto our lawyers as well.”

BYU and the LDS are going to sue the s#$t out of USA Rugby if they touch the eligibility requirements for college rugby. All but one of the Collegiate Eligibility Committee has resigned because all their work went for nothing because the LDS legal team are in the wings ready to pounce and USA Rugby has no means or balls to defend a change.

[Beagles]

Kiss the pipeline to Samoan origin players on the Eagles good bye!

http://www.samoarugbyunion.ws

[College Admin]

@Eagle Supporter
Apparently, though knowest not of what thou speaketh. Over on RugbyMag.com it quotes Nigel Melville saying that the regulations are being issued tomorrow in their original form. So USAR doesn't seem to be worried about Mormon or other lawyers suing their collective butts over this.

Of course, I thought that there was supposed to be a period for review and feedback from the consumers (college coaches and admins) of the proposed rules before they were issued. But, it doesn't look like that's going to happen either. This whole thing seems like a knee jerk reaction either way.

If you're a college coach and haven't seen a text of the final regs yet, just post along with me here.

[Haystacks Calhoun]

Good for the LDS lawyers. 25 year old veterans from service, guys that serve missions or guys who start school late deserve the chance to play.

Whats with the cry babies on here ? Too many foriegners ? Quit acting like a teenaged girl. If guys come over to play let them play. Watch the NCAA bball tourney and you will see military vets, foreigners all types of people. Not everyone iin college is a white 19 year old. Take off your mascara,dry your eyes and man up !

[Realist]

Said Haystacks from the comfort of his grandma's basement with memories of playing on the 3rd side of his college team 2 times before he finally met a girl and then only showed up to rugby when the keg was tapped.

[Haystacks Calhoun]

Realist, that was so sweet of you. Man up !

[CEO in name only]

It is hard to envision Nigel Melville actually doing something which takes guts, but his seat is hot on this college eligibility regulation issue.

We read on RugbyMag that he was trying to be careful, so a couple of weeks ago he asked the lawyers to look into it. Lets understand the chain of events. Melville asked a USAR committee to look into a new college eligibility rule. This committee takes months pulling together a recommendation. He ACCEPTS the committees recommendation (he could have sent it back to them and said keep working I don't like it). He forwards the new regulation to the College Management Committee for final approval, which happens in Feb. The twice vented work is now sent to the USAR Board of Directors for approval where in March it becomes officially the new college eligibility regulations.

Melville lets the trice vented and Board approved new regs sit on the corner of his desk for a couple of months collecting dust, before receiving a phone call from LDSville.

NOW he asked the lawyers to look into the regs? Wow, and you get paid $300k a year for this type of executive work! You even have a staff of individuals all making solid coin and you can't do any better than this?

Flash forward and a complete committee of hard working volunteers have resigned. The two recently crowned national champions at D1-A and D1-AA, BYU and Davenport, who both use far older players than their competition are up in arms and finally Nige is reportedly ready to make a decision.

Half-pregnant and looking for excuses, Melville reminds us of the Kooga lawsuit in defending his delays. Oh yea, thanks for that reminder. That is when under your watchful leadership USAR was found guilty of mismanagement of our sponsorship relations. Thanks Nige.

OK now, will Nige and his Boulder minions have the guts to back the many hundreds of colleges looking forward to eligibility regulation crafted by their peers, approved by the College Management Committee and signed into law by the Board of Directors, or will he split the baby? This is must see USAR management.

Tune for the answer in our next episode of, CEO in name only.

[CEO in name only]

Sorry, vetted not vented

[The Edge]

You are an idiot.

[college fan]

Melville is an idiot on our dime. Actually three million our our dimes.

[BYU's rugby team is older than my senior club team]

"Melville lets the trice vented and Board approved new regs sit on the corner of his desk for a couple of months collecting dust, before receiving a phone call from LDSville.

NOW he asked the lawyers to look into the regs? Wow, and you get paid $300k a year for this type of executive work! You even have a staff of individuals all making solid coin and you can't do any better than this?

Flash forward and a complete committee of hard working volunteers have resigned. The two recently crowned national champions at D1-A and D1-AA, BYU and Davenport, who both use far older players than their competition are up in arms and finally Nige is reportedly ready to make a decision."

A lot of this is false. And I'm someone who knows.

[Sergeant Hulka]

I think starting the clock after hs graduation is a very bad idea.

[club man]

In the NCAA you only get to play 4 years, 5 yrs to play 4. We should start there. If we are going to allow for a 5th year of play that should be it. No NCAA sport is allowing 5 years of play.

Lets get these college players out into the club game. The club game is what is suffering. US rugby has more youth and college players than most countries but our club rugby is substandard. 5 to play 4 then off to club rugby.

[sevens]

@ Sergeant

If the teams fielding older players only had 25 year old's on their team this discussion about new eligibility regulations would not be taking place. You enter college at 18-19, 25 years of age is 6-7 years later.

So why have there been 26, 27, 28 year old's playing college rugby? These teams abusing the rules have shot themselves in the foot. Davenport with their trumped up waivers, BYU with their church recruitment missions. If we were only talking about 24-25 year old's when most teams have 21-23 year old's it wouldn't be an issue.

This is why the clock starting after HS becomes important.

[just saying]

Davenport has 7 six year students this year and some of these players will go seven years. They have many others on their roster who will be grandfathered into being eligible also for 6-7 years.

The Davenport rugby website list many of these players date of birth. Their 6th years are 27 and 26 years of age.

Dartmouth players are 19-22 years of age. This is wrong and needs fixing.

[Anon]

The grandfather clause only affects when the 5-year window starts and does not include additional years.

No one is eligible for a 7th year, period. And players are only eligible for a 6th year from their date of high school graduation under certain circumstances .

[ACLU for you]

If EVERYBODY gets 4 years, no prob. If EVERYBODY is eligible to serve in the peace corps, military or mission and get 4 years of eligibility, then I'm all for it. When you penalize missionaries, peace corps or military for their service, I'm against it.
Every missionary will lose at least one year of eligibility. No other sport does this to them. How did USAR become "missionary haters?"

One other issue. Most players in the southern hemisphere who decide to go to university in the U.S. graduate from their equivalent of H.S. at 16 or 17 at the oldest.

Our universities attract (and are very proud of having) a student body from all over the world. Now you want to penalize kids whose educational systems are on a different track than ours.

I'm pretty sure that restricting eligibility due to age (or sexual orientation) without an overwhelmingly compelling reason (such as well-documented safety statistics) in a State University-sponsored club would run afoul of the ACLU as well.

[Not applicable]

When are people going to realize that there is a difference between a SCHOOL limiting who can be a member of a club and an NGB limiting who can play for a collegiate national championship? If a school doesn't think its fair, then they can stop participating in the USA Rugby playoffs. Simple solution. And these new regulations will stand up to any legal challenge that someone cares to bring. I'm willing to bet that most people commenting on here have not even actually read the new regulations.

[CEO in name only]

The wait is over.

USAR-Melville have pulled the trigger on the new college eligibility rules. It is pure USAR right to the end.

USAR titled the email they sent to all CIPP members...USA RUGBY LEVELS THE PLAYING FIELD.

If you are following closely, last week USAR crowns national champions Davenport and BYU, two teams using older than normal college age players. With the medals still hanging around the players neck, the following week USAR changes the eligibility rules with a we are leveling the playing field shout out.

Finally, they quote Marty Bradley in the release as the Chair, College Eligibility Committee. Yes you got it, the same Marty Bradley which recently resigned as the Chair of the College Eligibility Committee. They didn't even afford him the former Chair status, they just wallpapered him right into the series of screw ups. What the heck, its cleaner than explaining the mess around mass resignations.

This administration is special!

[Haystacks Calhoun]

All missionaries, military vets have a right to play college rugby. You think Army or the National Guard is going to sponser a group that penalizes its own ? So a enlisted Marine/Solider who fights for his country then goes into The Naval Academy or West Point is ineligable to play four years ?

If those volunteers made those stupid rules they should resign. A bunch of kids who grew up with soccer moms wanting age groups in your 20's ? Really ? We had another name for spoiled brats like these babies.

[Anon]

I believe Marty was quoted because his committe was the one that wrote the new rules. The office that sent out the e-mail has pretty much no power over their contents.

Just like with a political party or other non-profits, the power in rugby is in the committees, folks.

[BYU's rugby team is older than my senior club team]

Everyone can still play club rugby if they want to. This really isn't a big deal. Only teams that stacked up on older players will be affected. For most teams, they'll only 'lose' a handful of players at best. Players that can all play senior club rugby if they want to. smdh

[Haystacks is a Mormon]

We use to hear rants about the advanced age of players with the old rules, now we are going to read rants about some fellow who can't play because he's too old.

It is smart of the LDSers to include military in trying to make their case, even though most all of us would give a military exemption over that of a mission.

Done deal now it looks. Big victory for the smaller schools and the private schools.

BTW, what sponsors are you referring to Calhoun? The cupboard is dry except for an airline which we can't fly on.

[Sergeant Hulka]

BYU: you are assuming every college has a men's club nearby. My college was out in farm country. The closest men's rugby club was 50 miles away.

[BYU's rugby team is older than my senior club team]

Gasp. Then fucking create one. There are more than enough extra players on B/C teams and in towns to also field a senior men's team. Hell, there are senior clubs in KS, NM, MT, and SD that play club because they don't have enough kids or undergrads in the area to play college within the old rules even. Community college kids are much the same in other places.

[Dark Days Ahead]

The problem with these new eligibility rules are the following:
1) They limit, rather than include. One person already commented by essentially saying if you're school doesn't like, then go somewhere or don't play. That's sure to help the game grow. Well done.
2) I am coach and never once saw these proposed rules to offer feedback or to give my input. Seems like Marty Bradley and his cohorts were operating in a decision-making and USA Rugby-leadership vacuum if not in the shadows. Something that is so wide-reaching should have gone through a greater level of discussion among those that were to be affected.
3) How will these rules be enforced? USA Rugby is 99% a voluntary-run organization. We just created a whole new set of standards that an already impotent organization now going to have to enforce.
4) What about foreigners? This is a very myopic set of rules that Marty and cohorts drummed up...how will foreigners be accepted given their very different academic standards and calendars? If we're limiting our own American kids why shouldn't put regs on the kiwis, english, SA's, Aussies, etc?
5) Last but certainly not least: This new set of regs completely ignores the academic regs that should be centric to a student-athlete competition. This has been completely overlooked because people are blinded by this "age inequality" issue. These new "Varsity" teams are offering kids money and educations, but no one has come in to ensure that their student-athlete status is managed properly--i.e., does he/she have a certain GPA, amateur status, etc. These new regs speak some what to the amateur status issue, but no where did they touch on whether a team should academically. Again, another myopic oversight by Marty and his cohorts. With the proliferation of more "Varsity" teams who's going to keep these schools in check from fielding a team full of kids who don't academically meet even a bare NCAA level? Who's to ensure that the goal of being a student-athlete is being met--i.e., that they're progressing towards a degree? Or are these "Varsity" universities simply going to continue to being "rugby academies" with the ability to field a team peppered with 0.5 GPA's?

This is a very sad day for USA Rugby.

[The Edge]

Whatever Jack Clark.

[Craig]

They worked on these new regs in plain daylight, presented them and sought input from the College Management Council which at the time included the Director of College Rugby, USAR Board Member Pete S. and a cross section of men & women coaches..

[NBD]

Has anyone even looked at how many players this will impact? I'm guessing it's not that many. Of all the 25 year old former military, missionary or maternity players that were not actively recruited to gain a playing advantage, how many are A side players playing on a team trying to compete for a title. It's probably about 30 players in the country.

The rest are either not good enough for their varsity side, too busy with their adult life to play college rugby or too ashamed to take the field against a bunch of children so they play club rugby.

[Kiwi Rugby]

USA sucks at rugby. Who cares?

[NBD is right]

As is always the case, people are looking at the exceptions, rather than the rule. For 99.9% of college rugby players, these regulation changes mean nothing. For those complaining that they are too limiting or exclusive, I would like to see you craft something that is perfect. Once you start expanding the number of exceptions, where do you stop? Let's give unlimited exceptions for military because they served our country. Ok, well then let's give exceptions for policemen and firemen. And don't forget EMS first responders who save lives. You'll end up with no rules whatsoever. And seriously, if you don't like it, stop paying money to USAR. If you're a college team and you don't like it, create your own competition. Whining about it on a blog accomplishes nothing. And there are a whole bunch of openings on the college eligibility committee, so another option is to just put up your hand and join, then you can have the privilege of deciding what are the right rules. Anyone who is up in arms about this should be emailing Rich Cortez and asking to be on the CEC. rcortez@usarugby.org

[Stonewall Jackson]

Delivered to the collegiate rugby community by email on Friday, January 20. Unfortnately Todd was terminated a couple of days later....
________

All:

USA Rugby is accepting nominations to fill single vacancies on the Men’s Competition Committee and College Eligibility Committee. Candidates must be active men’s college coaches or administrators who are members of USA Rugby. A copy of each committee’s terms of reference is attached.

Interested candidates who meet these qualifications may self-nominate by emailing tbell@usarugby.org to express interest in serving. Please include your current coaching/administrative position and qualifications for the vacancy you are interested in.

Candidates may also be nominated by a third party. These nominations should also be sent to tbell@usarugby.org. Please include the nominee’s current coaching/administrative position and qualifications for the vacancy.

The nomination period will close February 3. Following the nomination period the College Management Council will review the candidates and select the new committee member.

Todd Bell
USA Rugby

[BYU's rugby team is older than my senior club team]

Dark Days Ahead: Read the rules. Being in good standing has always been a requirement. Now it looks like the new eligibility form even (finally?) has a column for it.

[BYU's rugby team is older than my senior club team]

If Grinnell, IA; Aberdeen, SD; Casper, WY; and Faribault, MN can field rugby teams, anywhere can. The idea that someone can't (or shouldn't) play senior club rugby is ludilimits

[BYU's rugby team is older than my senior club team]

*ludicrous

Chalk that up as one of the stranger typos or autocorrects I've ever encountered

[Mike]

Why not adhere to NCAA eligibility guidelines? Why reinvent the wheel? Most on this board tout the varsity model; that is until it doesn’t work in their favor. If it truly is a safety issue, I suppose we need to stop those University v. Men’s club side matches (e.g. St. Mary’s v. SFGG). Furthermore why is it incumbent upon the returning veteran to find a men’s club team? Why doesn’t the 18 year old, worried about his opponent, go find a U-19 side to play for? This seems easy, just stick to the NCAA guidelines and try and keep the college game as closely aligned to those standards as possible.

[BYU's rugby team is older than my senior club team]

Mike: NCAA standards vary from sport to sport (tennis has an age limit, for example), believe it or not. Also, U19 rugby no longer exists - it's high school and high school club, and you have to be within 4 years of starting 9th grade to play it. Please know what you're talking about before you start writing.

[And then there is this...]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/kentucky-becomes-second-state-bass-fishing-high-school-185906709.html

[Mike]

Thanks for the clarification and snide comment at the same time. I am not sure why I chose this time to wade into the cesspool of comments. However since I have… I think one difference in tennis is that the ITA governs college tennis. Certainly no one in tennis is worried about safety. My 16 year old daughter plays against much older players all the time. Sometimes 26 year old men! However, it seems the NCAA football standard would be one that USA Rugby might consider. Most NCAA sports seem to adhere to that standard and it is also the most well known. If this really is a safety concern (and not a way of trying to keep teams from beating yours) then what do we do about the University v. Club matches? Certainly these must be unsafe.

[BYU's rugby team is older than my senior club team]

My point was that the NCAA doesn't have one standard.

And St. Mary's versus SFGG may be one thing, but if a D2 team was playing grown men that'd be quite another. My D2 college team was always sour about playing men's teams because of the outcry against playing dirty old men. I can't even imagine if said dirty old men were also a fellow college team in the path of my team's playoff aspirations.

[Small Town Rugby]

Not to mention Willits, Yreka, and Bishop, CA

[Sergeant Hulka]

@BYU's:
What type of skinny little scared boys play on your college's rugby team? If your D2 team was sour about playing men's clubs, then don't schedule them!
My D2 college played men's clubs every season. The injuries were no worse than college v college matches. Under these new rules I wouldn't have been able to play college rugby my junior and senior years in college, all 165 pounds of me. And your argument, 'just start a club team' doesn't fly either and you know it. I'm sure the founders of those small town clubs mentions all have college rugby experience.

If USA Rugby didn't want BYU to play in the college division they never should have switched to Friday/Saturday competitions in the first place.

[BYU's rugby team is older than my senior club team]

We actually did see an uptick in injury against senior teams, but whatever. I can see you're too personally invested since this would have cost you eligibility. You'd rather be a 26 yo prick picking on inexperienced 18 yos than play against senior men's teams your own age. You must have felt like a real man playing against guys up to 8 years younger than you who were still physically maturing (one must assume you were a big/bad 26 yo since you would have lost 2 years under regulations that give people 6 years of opportunity).

[Reality]

The ire of the minority (veterans, proselytizing religious zealots and community college slackers) should be directed at the newly varsity rugby programs that decided it was best to give scholarships to 23 year old guys playing men's rugby rather than develop kids right out of HS. This is what Davenport did with a couple guys from Toledo RFC who just finished up their collegiate rugby career even though they graduated HS in 2006. Don't direct your ire at administrators that are just righting the ship.

[just saying]

Yep Davenport and BYU overplayed their hand and this is the payback.

[Sevens]

About 300 people on hand to watch NYAC defeat Life in RSL semifinal today. Great game. Great teams. Great coaches. Great facility. No spectators means no sponsors. Guessing the almost 8k attendance at college premiere final is more than the attendance of all RSL games combined. USAR is bad at event management but RSL is worse.

[No good match goes unpunished]

Just saying:
Well, if you feel you and those of your persuasion need to drive BYU and Davenport out of collegiate rugby so that men won't be playing boys (since all the starters on your team are 18 year olds--that's the situation you're always portraying), feel free. And, you're welcome to the profits and TV exposure of an Arkansas State vs Life final next year.

It'll be interesting to see the eligibility rules changes next year to penalize ASU and Life. And you know that they're coming.

[wtf]

We are mainly in this mess because Dan Payne at Life changed the rules, so that if you attended a college which didn't have a rugby team your clock didn't start. While working for USAR he handed out college waivers like beer nuts at a drink up. Life has them and Davenport have them.

The rule was so badly abused that the new rule is start the clock directly after HS graduation. This is a correction move from the abuses that went on.

What profits are you dreaming about from BYU v ASU? There are no profits.

[bruce mclane]

sevens, give it a break, it was a great day you say 300, others say 500, whatever it was, in a show of class and grace, LIFE came to the sideline and cheered the crowd. there was a live anthem that was professional. sorry we didnt sell out giants stadium.

[Sevens]

The NYAC game was a show of class. Great event. But until ten of thousands of fans show up for rugby, sponsors will not commit.

[NYC Blowhard]

500 people? That is pathetic. There are 500 ex-pats from Ireland, England, Scotland, New Zealand, South Africa, Australia and France who played or enjoy quality rugby on Manhattan alone. Can't you get any of them out? Come on Bruce! Get a clue.