Arkansas State, Life, BYU & St. Mary's advance to DI-A Semifinals

The DI-A field narrowed to four semifinalists on May 5th, as the West and Pacific conferences split evenly, while the Mid-South wiped the Rugby East out of the playoff picture.

(West Point, NY) Arkansas State (#2 Mid-South) claimed their second straight DI-A semifinal berth with a decisive 36-20 win over Army (#1 East.) Despite a heroic effort from flyhalf Will Holder (who totaled 15 points), the Black Knights were unable to contain the Red Wolves's backline, as freshman wing Josh Chomieszewski landed two tries in his first collegiate start.

(Marietta, GA) An aggressive Life (#1 Mid-South) XV trounced Penn State (#2 East) 75-3. Early physicality resulted in a penalty kick awarded to PSU, slotted by no. 10 Joe Baker for first blood. But the Running Eagles proved too dominant - the score was 45-3 at the break, and Life kept piling on the points for a convincing victory at home.

(Provo, UT) BYU routed visiting UCLA 103-24 before a capacity crowd, extending a undefeated record on South Field dating to 2009. Scrumhalf Shaun Davies went off for 26 points in the first half, and the Bruins' 29th minute try was soon followed by 25 unanswered points for a 51-7 scoreline at the whistle. Second-half errors allowed a few more UCLA scores, but the Cougars still doubled their lead for an eighth consecutive appearance in the semifinals.

(Moraga, CA) Two players down, St. Mary's (#1 Pacific) staved off a resurgent Utah (#2 West) in the final minutes for a close 24-15 win. The Gaels had a clean lead of 17-3 at halftime, but lost prop Jordan Bouey to a red card. Utah's pack bruised through for two second-half tries, but St. Mary's tenacious defense was enough to hold back the Utes from the playoffs.

Life will host BYU down south for the May 12th semifinal, while Arkansas State travels out west to challenge St. Mary's. Next weekend's matchups will determine the finalists in the May 19th championship match, to be held in Rio Tinto, UT.

Comments

[benito]

Life hosts BYU.... well however unlikely that at least gives them a chance. Here's to Life in the Final.

As good as Life is, I don't know that they will be able to beat BYU. I think they will play them tough. About as tough as Arkansas State played BYU last year perhaps. But BYU is awfully strong. Still, I'm hoping for Life vs SMC/Arkansas State in the final.

:)

[Ragby]

what was SMC red card for? that's going to hurt them vs ASU

[College]

The heat in Atlanta will be a major factor. Forecast is for 80F and clouds but this might change. If Life start well and are still in the game with 20 to go, they will win.

[Sergeant Hulka]

Ragby: Rugbymag said the SMC red card was for illegal use of the boot.

[Red Rock]

The SMC tighthead is a punk. Two week red card should rightly cost him the rest of the season. St Mary's is on the whole a dirty team.

There was very few fans at the game, no admission cost, no food or beverage. No write up in the newspaper. For a match of this importance it was a big disappointment. Yes, it did sting my team lost, but if this was the quarter finals to the premier national championship, the CPD is in trouble.

[Sergeant Hulka]

And it didn't even have to be Lindenwood v Davenport for no fans.

[7's vs 15's]

@Red Rock,
the smc tighthead was responding (albeit, very poorly)to assist a smc player being held on the ground with an elbow on his throat and his eye being gouged. the smc program and utah have much respect for one another and you casting aspersions that smc ".. on the whole is a dirty team" is nothing more than sour grapes. Enjoy the offseason.

[Leksan]

Sorry they didn't charge you an entrance fee Red Rock. I've seen many St. Mary's games and I've never heard anyone call them a dirty side. Sounds like sour grapes.

One reason the fan base was low is that the NorCal HS playoffs and season ending tournament was being held that day in Sacramento. All of the local clubs and their fans and supporters who regularly attend St. Mary's games were involved in the NCIT.

On a personal note, I'd like to throw out congratulations to Lamorinda for holding on to beat an amazing Islanders side for the Boys Varsity Gold NorCal Championship!

[boot stompper]

Sorry I have to agree with RR. St Mary's are one of the dirty teams. They play well, but dirty. By the way, it is good to know 7's vs 15's is so close to the St Mary's team that he knows of a "eye gouging" claim. Two weeks-two matches is what happens when you get redded.

[Playoff Observer]

Having watched both St. Mary's and Utah in very spirited, top-level matches this year, I'd have to give the edge to St. Mary's on "dirtiness", e.g., knowingly doing little, illegal, pointed things to your opponents to take them out of their game. On the whole, Utah is very hard-charging, but plays mostly within the rules on an individual basis. I watched various St. Mary's players jab, punch, gouge, kick, stomp, etc., whenever they thought they could get away with it. And I am NOT a Utah fan, so this is not sour grapes, since I don't care who wins.

[Playoff Observer]

And may I say that it does a disservice to college rugby to have a playoff game where no admission is charged. It devalues the whole competition. Either market the darn thing to the utmost of your abilities and raise a little money for your program, or bow out and give the opportunity to another club that would be willing to market it. We're not going to be able to sell broadcast rights to a competition that can't even draw paying fans to a home playoff game.

Incidentally, the first round (Friday) of the national championships at Rio Tinto (18-19 May) are going to be free as well. Abysmal. But what can you expect from USAR? They couldn't sell blubber to Inuit (Eskimos).

Guess what competition will end up paying for that day's stadium rental? Want to bet it will be charged against the D1A final, so that, again, there will be no profits to divide among the D1A teams?

[7's vs 15's]

@playoff observer,
the days of one team participating in the level of dirty play you site by smc pretty much came to an end when the "team of three" officiating came into play some years ago. your observations are most likely in line with your playing level, which i suspect was/is not very high.

[just sayin]

@7s vs 15s

Really, that is your response to a well written OPINION from Playoff Observer?

Because you don't like him saying your team is dirty (hello, you finished with 13 players) you are going to say his playing standard wasn't very high. So we should assume you were hot shit as a player.

Well guess what, you are now a tool and we will be reading the many comments of 7's vs 15's differently going forward.

Personally, I wish the Red Wolves success. May the classier team win.

[Gael Force!]

Haters Gonna Hate. SMC is a very talented rugby team and they do it with skill and hard work. Enjoy your keg league boys.

[Anon]

I've officiated a SMC match this year and didn't find them to be all that dirty, if at all. And, for the record, I'm from the East.

[7's vs 15's]

@just sayin,
I was "just sayin" my opinion same as playoff observer, nothing more. too bad my opionion does not match your lofty op ed standards. a gentle reminder: careful when you assume.

[hater I quess]

Bouey is done for the year for dangerous play. He should have been arrested for what he did. There is no place in the game for players like him.

Is this the skill and talent you are referring to?

[Sergeant Hulka]

Following up on Red Rock's media comment, there are no St. Mary's rugby articles in the Contra Costa Times and no Univ. of Utah rugby articles in the SLCTimes. On the other hand, BYU has a 2 minute video press release on the front page sports section of the Daily Herald.
http://www.heraldextra.com/sports/
Looks like a very well attended match, good job BYU!

[7's vs 15's]

arrested? really? no player was injured on the play. after the game, all players and coaches shook hands and nothing but mutual repsect from both sides. let's all calm down a bit.

[7's vs 15's]

i might add, utah received 2 yellow cards, one on pati late in the game for punching, only a yellow when he "convinced" the ref that he was aiming for the ball and not the players head with a closed fist.

[Red Wolves fan]

7s vs 15s you are a homer for the Gaels. Shut up and go back to your day time TV. You aren't going to change anyones mind on this blog. SMC has played some dirty rugby and they are now without their starting TH prop. Assault with intent is a crime. He should be prosecuted.

He should be banded for the IRB 6 mos recommendation at a minimum.

[Sergeant Hulka]

Red Rock/Wolves: All LAU's have a disciplinary committee. I suggest you join one. At any rate, you may want to read Regulation 17 before assuming penalty recommendations. The IRB recommended sanction for a top end offense of stamping an opponent is 9+ weeks, and 12+ weeks for a top end offence of kicking an opponent:

10.4(b) Stamping on an Opponent
LE – 2 weeks
MR – 5 weeks
TE – 9+ weeks

10.4(b) Trampling on an Opponent
LE – 2 weeks
MR – 5 weeks
TE – 9+ weeks

10.4(c) Kicking an Opponent
LE – 4 weeks
MR – 8 weeks
TE – 12+ weeks

10.4(d)
Tripping an Opponent with the
foot/leg
LE – 2 weeks
MR – 4 weeks
TE – 7+weeks

24+ week recommended sanctions are for testicle grabbing (or twisting or squeezing), biting, and contact with the eyes or eye area.

[Aesop]

I wish people knew how to use the expression "sour grapes" correctly.

Read my fable sometime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

[Gael Force!]

Gaels by 12 to 15 over the Used Tampon Mutts (i.e. Red Wolves or Saffers).

[7's vs 15's]

@red wolves fan
You funny. Apology accepted.

[Texas A&M gone]

In a letter to the D1a premier teams and USAR Texas A&M withdrew from the competition today.

A&M has been unfairly locked out of the Texas college competition by the chicken schools not wanting to lose to them, but yet they still pulled the plug on the dying CPD.

The other CPD candidates for withdrawal total upwards of 8 teams. All with better options than A&M. It is doubtful the D1a competition can withstand the lost of yet another great brand and still consider themselves marketable.

Gone now from the CPD is two time national championship finalist and current CRC champion Dartmouth. Former national champions San Diego State. Perennial national champions Cal. Great college sports brands such as LSU, Tennessee and Texas A&M, along with former D2 national champions Claremont Colleges.

The next group of teams to depart which total between 6-8 teams are among the most well known in US college rugby.

This will leave St Mary's, Ark St, Life Chiropractic, BYU, KTown, Central Washington, Delaware etc to fight it out for college rugby's top price.

[WTF!]

Claremont Colleges leaving was a devastating blow to the competition!

[Playoff Observer]

@Texas A&M gone
Gee, you forgot Army, Navy, Penn State, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Colorado State, etc., in your list of remaining teams. I wonder why. Could it be that you are, to coin a phrase, a nattering nabob of negativism? Let's ignore all the quality college sports brands that are left, since they don't support your diatribe.

[Ragby]

What is the actual list of teams leaving and teams staying?

[college fan]

From what is assumed, Playoff Observer and his list of name brand returners is going to be shocked.

[Anon]

I'm going to assume that A&M left because that's a lot of money to spend to *never* beat Arkansas State or Life.

[Anon]

Also, A&M should probably petition the SCRC for membership now that its athletic dept. is in the SEC.

[College]

I'm sure the SCRC has already said Yes to A&M before they left the CPD.

[Clarence Picard]

It was mentioned prematurely in another comment section but Rutgers was officially admitted into the Empire Rugby Conference on Monday.

[Rutgers out?]

Kind of doubt the A&M student body was fired up over even playing Life or Arkansas State, much less getting pounded. The SCRC will be a great fit. It will cost the same budget, but it will ofter the potential of some excitement to the A&M campus. The sport club administration will like the idea a whole lot better.

I am not sure about Army and Rutgers leaving for the Empire. This might be just be a backup plan and a opportunity to play XV in the fall for Army. Any D1a/CPD team not already having decided to leave at least has a backup plan. On the other hand Rutgers shouldn't be in the premier league and the Empire will be a perfect fit.

The two playoff teams from the east have gone 0-4 over the last two years. The first year they fell to the west, this year to the south. If a team is below mid table in the east, it might be time to rethink your competition and maybe that's what Rutgers has done.

Playoff Observer is playing the Polly Anna part, or he doesn't understand the situation. Good news is newly crowned back to back national champions Davenport will be ready to promote and they will fit right in with the "rugby schools" remaining.

Dartmouth, Tennessee and San Diego St the other D1aa finalist have already left the CPD, so they aren't going to promote.

A 2013 D1a of about 12 teams might be what some want. Not sports fans or TV folk, but somebody. Two conferences East-West.

[the new realignment]

In the new mid-south conference realignment Life and Arkansas State are going to play each other best of 7 for the title.

[Community College Conference]

I think that Life, Ark State, Davenport and Lindenwood should create their own super conference and play eachother for the Community College Championship. It would be top notch rugby played with some of the dumbest from across this great land... And they can let the rest of us with academic standards, compete for a lil ole National Championship.

I dont mind losing to BYU or Cal by 100 points, but I do mind losing to a rugby factory with no academic standards by that much.

[Anon]

^Clownshoes here is cute. As if academic standards are applied to other college sports across all institutions.

[JoshM]

Just confirmed by a contacting the board that Rutgers AND Army are joining Empire.

[Self-Destructive Culture]

Not too sure that anything gets the A&M student body fired up about anything to do with rugby. I have a suspicion that conference games against ASU and Life aren't to blame for the lack of interest. While you battlers are pretending all the boat racers in DI-AA are all Rhodes scholars and planning the highly marketable Auburn vs. Alabama rugby knock-forward bowl, I'll be watching the DIA semifinals.

And if there are only 12 DIA teams next year, then I'll enjoy the couple of months of top-tier play they offer while people spew venom here about what a loser you are if you don't go to college at a school with a big football team.

Cannot believe there are problems with college rugby going forward in the U.S. considering the support we give our best! Rich Cortez and Tam Breckenridge: watch your backs!

[self-destructive for real]

I agree, it is self-destructive to have a NAIA trade school defeat name brand academic institutions, by offering scholarships with the sole intent to better their own brand at the expense of the whole of college rugby.

BTW if you are watching the 12 team "rugby schools" premier league next year, you will be one of the very few fans doing so.

[Sergeant Hulka]

A&M students don't need much of an excuse to back anything on campus. They are crazy about the school, no matter who plays whom.
And I don't recall the football players of most D1 school being academic over achievers. They're there to play football, not graduate. I'll put a Life, Ark St. or Lindenwood rugger up against any Auburn or LSU cornerback or linebacker in academics any day.

[Sergeant Hulka]

And since when is the NAIA a bad word?

[Walter Cronkite]

I remember back then news like A&M moving to D1AA was leaked on gainline way before it was public knowledge. A&M moving to D1AA is seriously old news. The real news is the conference realignment that's going to take place as a result of more teams moving to D1AA otherwise known as the happiest place on earth.

And that's the way it is...

[My way or eff you!]

Shorter Gainline commenter:

I hate everyone whose approach to rugby is not exactly like mine.

[Playoff Observer]

Heck, if we can just get Cal to play BYU every year, we'll be ahead of the BCS. At least the top 2 programs in the country can face each other on the field and determine which team is best in a given year. Honestly, who really cares what happens in the regular season. It's all preamble to the real showdown. I love that game. Sad that it ain't gonna' happen this year.

[Ragby]

Cal is no better than the 5th best team this year. All the d1a semi-finalists are clearly better.

[NAIA Haters Reminiscing About That Tournament Where They Won The Party]

Yeah, students getting the opportunity to receive financial aid to play college rugby in the United States is a massive step backward. We need to stick with the "let's see who stops by the recruiting table on the way to the pledge meeting" strategy of the DIAA "NCAA conference" teams, where rugby will always be in the shadow of a 75,000 seat varsity stadium, instead of encouraging growth and high on-field performance at schools that are willing to invest in rugby.

And I understand that I will be one of so very few rugby fans who follow DIA rugby. From comments here and elsewhere, it looks like no one cares at all which of the four semifinalists is the best in the country or anything; they're all just twiddling their thumbs waiting for the ACC or SEC or Big Ten whatever to get going again.

[Go Cougars]

@Ragby
Maybe, but I'd still love to see the Cal vs BYU match. I'm not sure you can say that either Life or ASU are better than Cal this year. Maybe yes, maybe no. Cal lost one match to St. Mary's. Maybe they'd win the next two if they played again. The only team heads and shoulders above the rest, so far, is BYU. We'll see on Saturday. Except for the venue, it's going to be a top-of-the-heap match with the final outcome very much in doubt.

By the way, Go Cougars. Beat the spine-crackers.

[Anon]

"Brand Names"

LAX
John Hopkins, Towson, Cornell

Baseball
Wichita State, Fresno State, CS Fullerton, Rice

Basketball
Gonzaga, Xavier, Butler, Wake Forest, Uconn

Soccer
UC Santa Barbara, Akron, Charlotte, New Mexico, Louisville

Football
Boise State, TCU,

I mean all of you are just flat out wrong. Facts are facts. While big alumni based schools with good football teams increase exposure it's CLEAR that sports can exist, grow, flourish AND decline with big name football schools and small unknowns.

I like seeing big name schools do well but there is room for others to be good. I am also confident that the young men from these NAIA schools will succeed, fail and everything in between just like everyone else.

Calm Down.

[Ragby]

Check and mate for Anon. his point is inarguable.

[Community College Conference]

Anon, all those schools you just named are ALL bigger names and have higher academic standards than Life, Davenport, Lindenwood, Kutztown and the Baby Boks factory combined.

Now, I don’t think we should get rid of these schools. But I do think they should all join a conference together in maybe the NAIA and compete for their own championship. It’s great that most of them have varsity status. But it doesn’t help the rest of us. I don’t understand they’d want to play the little weak traditional schools anyway.

What point does it prove to beat the Notre Dame’s, the Penn State’s, the Ohio State’s, theTexas’ and Texas A&M’s by 100 points? Do they get hard over it? It’s a waste of time. Nobody wants to watch it. And nobody will sponsor it. They bring no dollars to the table. And in the end that’s what we need to move this whole thing forward.

Let them be a rugby factory, but do it over there… in the corner… by themselves.

[benito]

Yes, let them do it over there in the corner. They should be shunned for aspiring to be better!

[Can't have your cake and eat it too....]

You want Varsity status but when the small/unknown schools do it and the big/well known schools don't do it, you stomp your feet and yell "No" like my 3 year old when he is told he can't have M&Ms.

[Very Calm]

Not so fast.

You bring up a true and obvious point that within NCAA varsity scholarship sports there are some non-major brands which have excellent success stories. This is indeed inarguable.

In the premier final-four we have two such brands in St Mary's College and Arkansas State. SMC has had some good success in men's basketball, but is on balance a low tier brand much like the Ark St brand and the some of the brands listed above.

BYU although not without a certain stigma due to being an LDS church school is US rugby's gold brand in this year's final-four.

NAIA Life Chiropractic College, recently renamed Life University for marketing reasons, is below the bottom tier of college brands. It doesn't even belong in the conversation with the schools listed above in "anon's" off-brand dissertation.

US college rugby's issue isn't that ONE of these teams is making a run in the postseason, it is that they are ALL in the postseason. This results in zero marketability for the national championship. If BYU doesn't make it to the final it will be a disaster. Either way if the venue wasn't SLC this national championship would be a marketing disaster. We have built it and they won't come. Throw Davenport into the mix and the picture even gets clearer.

US rugby has created a situation where the well branded universities with name recognition, fans and alumni are under resourced to the lesser brands which which see this as an inexpensive path to some sporting recognition. Good for them and bad for US rugby because TV, fans and sponsors won't have an interest.

OK then, what's to be done you ask? Give the non-brands the championship is the answer. The non-brands and USAR can carry on just as is.

Meanwhile, the best branded teams have insulated themselves in conferences. The anons will rant these conference comps are keg&frat boy competitions and further complain these students at name brand schools are cowards etc. But the split has happened and it won't be reversed.

Not sure who won, but US rugby will be better off when the students at ND aren't put to the sword by scholarship 6th year students at Davenport.

For now, cross your fingers and hope BYU wins at Life Chiro. A lost by BYU would make this situation starkly obvious with a third of last years attendance at Rio Tinto. A win by BYU may disguise the situation for yet another year.

Either way, as anon says, calm down. It will all work out in the end.

[benito]

Would you rather watch big names that play a sloppy game or no names that play the game well?

7s works because it's easier for a multitude of reasons. And it has afforded USA Sevens to invite big names to the CRC. The games are shorter, so even if the quality isn't great.... it's over in 14 minutes anyways. Would you want to watch 80 minutes of a championship game where the level of play was awful?

Stop whining, Life is helping the game for now. Hopefully bigger name schools will catch up in the future, and then you'll have big names playing good rugby.

[Anon]

1.) What is with other commentators using the handles of others (I've been commenting as 'Anon' on here for a long time)?

2.) It's worth noting that Arkansas State (who I'm guessing is the 'baby Boks academy' in the eyes of big-school-but-team-sucks dude) is NCAA Division 1 (including FBS for football) and a bigger brand than a lot of the schools mentioned by the other Anon. Additionally, Kutztown & Lindenwood are NCAA Division 2 in sports, which isn't too dissimilar than the powers in other sports (wrestling, lacrosse, hockey, etc.) that thrive in one particular sport. My guess is that CCC is butthurt about getting in to some lower-tier D1 state school and then losing to a school like Kutztown.

3.) I fail to see how schools that really are NAIA (Life, Davenport) raising the bar hurts rugby. Shouldn't it make you want to improve your own club and beat them?

[please]

In the opinion of many, Life is indeed hurting the game. This is why the teams in the SEC want to play each other and not Ark St and Life Chiro. You don't see the better teams like BYU, Navy, Army, Cal, Utah scheduling matches with these schools. Why, because they are afraid? Doubt it. They don't think playing a no name university helps to advance their rugby.

Don't confuse a good match of rugby against a skilled opponent with the strategies needed to advance college rugby. These are two different things.

Also why do you think all the non-premier rugby is so inferior to premier rugby? There is lots of "sloppy" rugby in the top premier teams.

Besides, what the conference teams are doing is trying to improve their rugby. Step one is to build more interest on their campuses and playing the local trade school isn't part of the plan. Even acknowledging the local trade school plays excellent rugby.

benito, two things, no ones whining we are just telling you what you don't like hearing. The Life's can have their own little competition without earning their chops on the backs of the real universities. Second, when you ask what quality of rugby we want to watch, you fail to understand the mission is to attract others to the sport, not merely to satisfy our own interest. Large schools with lots of brand, potentially attract more fans and media. Maybe the quality is off marginally, but more fans will come byway of better brands. The rugby is improving and it will continue to do so. There are more varsity-like teams at D1aa than you are acknowledging.

The right approach, the right plan and the right brand will improve US college rugby, better than what we are currently stuck in.

Have you ever been to a match at Life or Arkansas State? 100-250 fans is a major crowd. They don't even watch their own hot ass rugby, much less will a new sport fan.

[Ragby]

Too many personal problems being masqueraded as objective thought in this conversation for me.

[benito]

Please:

Please. Unfortunately Cal isn't here and we don't have a marketable match-up. Cal-BYU. After that fan support for XVs is slim to none. You're right, 100-250 watch Life or Arkansas State. But how many show up for a UCLA match? Or Rutgers? Or Notre Dame? Or Ohio State? 100-250 right now would be an improvement for them.

[Anon]

"Too many personal problems being masqueraded as objective thought in this conversation for me."

Yep.

[Sergeant Hulka]

The brand doesn't matter if the product sucks. Pitt football can't fill a stadium (unless they're playing ND or WVU) and no one at Penn State gives a rat's ass about basketball.

The elephant in the room isn't the brand or the quality of play, it's the sport. Non ruggers just don't care about rugby, whether the product is good or not. They just don't understand the 'foreign' game.

[Community College Conference]

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound..." Same can be said for D1A Rugby. If Life takes on Arkansas State in the D1A Championship in Utah will anyone care, or watch it...? The answer is no and NO.

And don't kid yourself Anon. Getting accepted in to Ark Stat is not the same thing as getting in to, Cal, Stanford, Notre Dame, Navy, Army, any Big Ten School, any ACC School, and most of the rest of the major conferences. Just isn't the same and don't think it is.

[College Hockey]

There were exactly 7 schools with FBS football programs (and some of them probably aren't good enough for many of you, like Western Michigan and Miami of Ohio) that were in this year's NCAA Hockey Tournament. And college rugby would do well to be even half as popular as college hockey.

[just saying]

@ College Hockey

Sorry for the rudest in this comment but some just aren't understanding, so lets take it up a notch.

Western Michigan and Miami of Ohio are like Harvard on steroids compared to Life Chiropractic.

[College Hockey]

"Men's Division I Hockey Sets New Attendance Record"
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2008/04/12_mens.php

And yet...

[KEY: Name = BCS AQ or Academy; FBS = Division 1 FBS Football; DIV. 1 = NCAA Division 1 Sports]

Final 16 Participants – Past 5 Years:
HOCKEY:
2012: 5/16 – NAME; 7/16 – FBS; 12/16 – DIV. 1
2011: 4/16 – NAME; 6/16 – FBS; 11/16 – DIV. 1
2010: 2/16 – NAME; 4/16 – FBS; 10/16 – DIV. 1
2009: 4/16 – NAME; 5/16 – FBS; 14/16 – DIV. 1
2008: 7/16 – NAME; 8/16 – FBS; 13/16 – DIV. 1

Final 4 Participants – Past 5 Years:
HOCKEY:
2012: 2/4 – NAME; 2/4 – FBS; 2/4 – DIV. 1
2011: 2/4 – NAME; 2/4 – FBS; 3/4 – DIV. 1
2010: 2/4 – NAME; 3/4 – FBS; 3/4 – DIV. 1
2009: 0/4 – NAME; 1/4 – FBS; 3/4 – DIV. 1
2008: 3/4 – NAME; 3/4 – FBS; 3/4 – DIV. 1

[Sergeant Hulka]

100-250 fans at a college club rugby match is actually pretty good. I went to a D2 school with about 8,000 students and you'd be hard pressed to get 20 out for a varsity soccer match. How many people go to swim meets at USC or Stanford? They're varsity. Trying to hold rugby up to a football standard for popularity and fan attendance is simply not realistic. I've seen the Univ. of Texas play rugby. Big school, right? Trust me, you'd rather watch Life.

@Please: stop complaining that you're big, popular school gets beat by Life. Hopefully your school will get better in the future.

[?]

Here's betting graduates of Life are more successful than graduates of Minnesota Duluth, Bemidji State, etc.

[first shoe on the ground, second shoe daggling.]

Days before the semifinal is to be played and a week before the end of the D1a competition and Final, Rugby Magazine is reporting:

Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Army and Rutgers have all dropped from the D1a premier competition.

Keep in mind that Army is being cagey in their commitment, but even with the four excellent brands dropping out this is a death nail for the CPD.

The next half dozed teams to drop are already known to the competition insiders.

USAR reported: Nigel is finishing off a deep restful nap and he promises to hire somebody to solve this situation quickly.

[Pollyanna wants to play rugby too.]

It's kind of interesting that rugby is finally blowing up, with very serious programs at many levels, at a time when the entire college sports landscape is as unstable as it has been in many years.

College football is getting bigger and bigger, but throw in the whole concussion hysteria and potential for very ugly lawsuits down the road, and I wonder if we are looking at a giant bubble (one that may apply to a lot more than college football). If that ever pops...well, things may be pretty unrecognizable before too long.

What really disturbs me is all the contempt in these comments (well, maybe it's just coming from two guys). Anyone remember when respect was seen as a big part of rugby? Hello? Is this thing on? Now we have scorn heaped upon kids who take it seriously at the wrong universities. And kids who take it just as seriously, but at schools who don't provide the same level of support (and that's really the crucial difference...not the players, not the coaches, but the institutional support), are derided as playing KegRugby.

People are trying to build rugby in a lot of different ways. The best way to figure out what works...try everything. If it upsets you that someone in a different program is doing things differently than you are, you're probably being an asshole.

We're not at the point where a tweak here or there (a successful "traditional" conference, another first class program) is going to make the Eagles turn the corner by 2015. We have decades of work to do simply building cultural penetration of awareness in our sport...and for the first time in the many years that I've been involved, we have some real momentum.

Instead of tearing each other down, we should be recognizing each other's achievements and getting over ourselves enough to celebrate them.

tl;dr? Ragby's comment will do.

[verdict in]

Sergeant, you are so right. Except for the small fact the best branded teams don't agree with you in the slightest. To be so right, but yet so wrong, it must sting a little.

You could have been somebody Hulka! Just that the teams don't agree with you and are voting with their feet.

[bruce mclane]

the most prominent college that people graduated from on the forbes 400 or 500 richest people is NONE.

Get over the fact that someone who didn't happen to have educated parents, tutors for the SAT, access to plagiarizing papers, access to tests (yeah, people cheat in college) are somehow better.

the fact that someone could afford to go to an ivy or sub ivy institution means zero in the world of sports. we love sports because it is the great equalizer.

tony rice (ND nat'l champion QB) and Patrick Ewing (G'town national champion hoops player) were not "academically qualified" per se for their respective schools, yet both added tremendous value and helped raise the accademic standards of the school by adding immensely to its popularity.

if life U, davenport, lindenwood, etc. finds that rugby adds value to their schools and if these schools can raise their academic standing through the recruitment of rugby players, good on them.

the sancitmonious nonsense sounds more as if the poorly educated are trying to defend the intelligent.

maybe some of these posters can sit in the stands and make the bush league chant that some priviliged schools as they get their butt kicked by their so called "inferiors" "that's all right, that's ok, you're gonna work for us some day"

not so sure that humanities degree from communist U helps that much. get over the academic standards crap. if you can't beat them at least stop the bashing.

[benito]

I don't blame anyone for dropping out. The league was flawed from the beginning and with Cal among the others that dropped after one year this top level was doomed to begin with. I also don't blame schools for starting conferences that the student body can relate to. Arkansas State and Life will be left to find their own regular seasons. And they will. And for now Life/ASU will continue to make strides in the playoffs. And then you'll have the same complaining. Boooo! Small School Beat My Big School! And now you have Small School vs Small School in the championship. Booooo!

[Doug Porter]

"This is why the teams in the SEC want to play each other and not Ark St and Life Chiro" (@Please)

Tennessee already has a game with Life on their schedule (Feb 2, 2013). Georgia didn't play Life this season, but did the season before that and will probably have games against both Life and Arkansas St's 2nd teams this year.

I've never had a bad experience with either Life's undergrad team or Arkansas St. They're both class programs run by friendly, helpful, extremely competent coaches. I fail to see how that does anything but great things for rugby.

I'll be making the 2 hour drive to Marietta to watch Life vs BYU on Saturday and am thrilled to have such a high quality college game within driving distance.

[Numbers]

Acceptance rates obviously don’t paint a full picture of a school’s academic quality, but let’s not pretend that the kids on all these other teams are Rhodes scholars. The kids on Utah & Wyoming (!) aren’t all that smarter than the kids at Life, Davenport, etc.

Acceptance Rates:
8.4% - Navy
11.7% - Darmouth
13.1% - Army
13.5% - Air Force
21.5% - Cal
22.7% - UCLA
28.8% - Notre Dame
29.0% - Cal Poly SLO
45.0% - UC Davis
54.2% - Delaware
54.8% - Penn State
55.5% - Rutgers
55.8% - Lindenwood
63.4% - Kutztown
64.3% - BYU
67.4% - Life
68.9% - Texas A&M
70.1% - Arkansas State
72.2% - LSU
74.5% - Tennessee
75.3% - St. Mary’s
75.4% - Arizona
80.5% - Colorado State
82.9% - Colorado
81.1% - Ohio State
81.4% - Central Washington
82.9% - Utah
84.4% - Davenport
85.0% - Oklahoma
86.6% - Arizona State
95.4% - Wyoming

[Hot Potato]

When the D1A collapses in a few weeks. What conference will Life and Ark State go to?

[Carolinas Rugby League]

Life & Arkansas State are technically already members of the South Independent Rugby Conference (well, there B sides are at least), but we'll see how long that lasts when Emory et al realize they'll never have a shot at the playoffs again. Conferences not being under TUs/GUs is going to lead to a lot of A&Ms, Lifes, etc. not finding homes. It seems the pre-ACRL conference known as the 'Carolinas League' might have had it right - 3 D1 teams and 4 D2 teams in one competitive conference, with the top teams from each division going to their respective playoffs. Maybe that's the approach that D1-A/D1-AA should be taking.

[Hot Potato]

I think USAR should tier the conferences. You can take the Pac 12, Big 10, SEC, ACC...etc if they all form and you take the top 6 teams and compete in D1A and the bottom 6 teams go and compete in D1AA. Top and bottom of each compete at the end of the year for regulation. Im sure Life and Ark State would find a home or maybe field their own independent conference to compete in. Maybe they get Davenport, and Lindenwood to compete in it as well. Makes no sense to go back to the old way.

[E Fixes College Rugby]

College Champions League:
-16 or 20 teams divided into 4 (or 32-40 into 8, in the future) pools of 4-5 teams every year; teams play either 4 matches (5 teams) or 6 matches (4 teams)
-Teams invited by winning previous year's competition or gaining at-large invitation
-Teams belong to conferences based on geography (Pacific Northwest?) or branding (SEC, ACC, etc.)
-Teams play CCL pool matches throughout year based on calendar availability and fits with league schedules
-16-team National Invitational Tournament for non-CCL teams every year that invites teams performing well

Boom. Done. Same fix could work well for all other levels of rugby in this country.

[South Park]

Army has not dropped from D1A, despite the hopes of the negative nancies here. Their second and third sides have entered the Empire Conference, much like their C side used to play in MetNY's D1 competition while their playoff eligible A side played in NERFU's D1.

[Anon]

You're right. It's a good thing the Brand of Ohio State college of Agriculture came in and saved the sport of football.

Brands are created by building programs.

And once all of these power conference teams play in places other than parks with matching uniforms and an actual "product" then you might have an argument.

Those smaller schools have better attendance and will continue to because they have a better product. And I'm not talking about the rugby being played - that is just a part of it. They have professional administration and professional accountability. Actual athlete development and hopefully marketing plans.

these schools are pretty much the only ones with streaming media or heavens forbid actual TV coverage so your brand argument has zero merit anyway.

You are in fact wrong as the athletes, parents, and friends in these programs are WAY more likely to give back to rugby later in life because of the quality of their experience. They will be the ones taking kids and friends to see the CRC and Test matches, donating to fundraising drives and sendign their kids to rookie rugby. Not some guy who remembers jumping off a roof at a keg party during his schools BCS bowl victory.

Sorry

[Sergeant Hulka]

I am in no way defending the D1-A conference. My comment some time ago states my belief that it is a super-conference that doesn't exist in any other college sport and most likely is an untenable conference. I am defending any college that wants to play superior rugby, whether it's Life, Ark St., Penn State or Cal.

[Go Redhawks!]

@College Hockey - Miami of Ohio is routinely listed among the "Public Ivies", like Cal, Michigan, UVA, etc. (Western Michigan, of course, not so much).

[college fan]

The poorer brands drove the better brands out of the CPD, its over.

Now can we get on to how this looks going forward. Are their independent teams? Is the old D1aa now the new D1a? Do all teams need to be in a conference? There will be more conferences than spots in the national championship tournament. Is every school playing for the same championship?

Will there even be a national championship? Will USAR run the national champions or will a company like the CRC?

We pay dues for this mess?

[LAX]

You guys are a crack up, and if guys like Bruce are the face/voice of rugby in the USA the game is going nowhere!

[anon]

Army is hedging their bets with the Empire. They know the CPD is heading for the junk pile and they are getting ready for their jump off point. Others are outright jumping.

This board is like a visit to Fantasy Island.

The only college NGB which collects dues from college teams, USAR, has let us down and we don't even hold the $300,000 CEO accountable.

[College]

I think the whole concept of nationals is flawed and I think you'll see some conferences pulling away before too long.

[Anon]

'Anon' & anon:

Is it really so hard to pick a different handle for being anonymous? Heaven forbid anyone understand some consistent arguments thanks to consistent handles.

[College Hockey]

William & Mary and Vermont are also 'public ivies.' The point is that a place like Miami isn't a name school like all the "wah wah wah I lost to Life crowd" institutions are. No one is tuning in to watch Miami play football - which is all that matters according to some folks (I disagree).

[Go Redhawks!]

Ok, I see what you were saying. I got my wires crossed with all the people crying about the lower academic quality of some of the D1A teams.

[D1-A Misinformation]

-Army is still in D1-A.
-Rutgers is dropping because they're not competitive.
-OU, A&M, and ND are hopelessly non-competitive thanks to being in a conference with ASU & Life. Tennessee & LSU dropped the year before based on this same realization.

I'm really not seeing the freak out. Unless BYU, Utah, Penn State, etc. take their ball and go home, D1-A will be fine.

The real issue is that D1-A probably shouldn't have ever been more than 16-20 teams, and that anyone who's in a conference with Life & ASU is probably boned. If Cal & BYU were in the same conference within D1-A, you'd see a ton of western teams drop too. It's not worth the cost if you have zero chance of making the playoffs.

[there is room for all approaches]

There is a huge difference between playing Life in a friendly exhibition match in order to expose your team to the extremely high level of rugby they play and having them as part of a conference that you are trying to market and brand. Life is one of the top 5 college rugby programs in the country and they are doing it with college-age kids and Americans and a coach who pretty much totally gets it. But I've said this before and will say it again-all the people like Bruce McLane who say that teams need "get better" and stop complaining about Life need to realize that the way a team like Georgia or Maryland or Tennessee "gets better" is to 1. get more adiminstrative support; 2. get more alumni support; 3. provide an attractive competition for high school players. Ask a team like Alabama or Wake Forest if the SCRC and ACRL has helped their programs grow. 5 years ago both were D3 teams, I think. None of these schools can take the approach to creating a high level rugby program that Life or Arkansas State can. So they use what is at their disposal, which is trying to leverage the marketability of their schools and rivalries with other schools.

And I guess we'll see how much Life devalues the marketability of college rugby when they play in the CRC final and we can compare ratings from last year.

[A Better D1-A]

California/Pacific: UCLA, St. Mary's, Cal Poly, UC Davis, Cal*
Mountain: BYU, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, Central Washington**
Central: Colorado, Air Force, Arkansas State, Davenport***, Lindenwood***
East: Life, Navy, Army, Penn State, Kutztown

*Bring back Cal,
**Move CWU
***Add Davenport & Lindenwood

[CPDud]

Let me remind you that I (CPDud) was pointing out that this premier league was flawed from day one and you lemmings attacked my position (i.e. not thought out, bloated with too many wanna be programs, sold on the hype of Mr. Clark on a now defunct podcast, etc, etc). Maybe next time a slick talking opportunist (this time Jack Clark) starts talking up the viability of this or that you will look at the facts and history before you jump in. Time to grow up rugby community.

[Ragby]

"Communist U"?? christ, Bruce. I went to one of your co-called bastions of liberalism and communism was never mentioned as anything but a failed ideology along with fascism and laizze-faire economics. but dont let facts get in the way of your bellowing.

[Ditto Heads]

If you think Bruce is a Rush Limbaugh ditto head, you should hear the political ramblings of our Eagle coach Mike Tolkin. 24/7 Fox News and right wing radio has shaped his political thoughts. God forbid if there is an Eagle quality player out there that is gay. He'll never see the pitch!

[Ragby]

Maybe thats true, maybe it's not, but as long as it doesnt affect his coaching he can believe all the conspiracy theories he wants.

[Ditto Heads]

Maybe when Tolkin sees what it's like to have a government that supports and respects pursuits in sport, art, education and the social contract as he comes up against teams from Russia, Romania, Georgia, Portugal, Spain, etc he will change his views a bit. I mean the right wing way is for McDonald's to write a big sponsorship check, or for NBC to write a big broadcast check, but that isn't going to happen. Instead he is going to have to live on the TAX (i.e. CIPP) of HS and college kids to fund his team. Pathetic!

[small college fan]

Lets take an objective look at the D1a Premier Division

It started with 31 teams spread almost evenly over the US. One less team in the Mid-South, but on whole 3 conferences of 8 teams and one of 7.

As of this minute 10 teams have withdrawn. We know there are more to come, but we can update the tally as the days pass by.

This leaves 21 teams. Pacific 5, West 8, Mid-South 2 and East 6.

Of the 21 teams remaining there are 6 very average to poor teams which would all struggle in the D1aa division to include: Delaware, Central Washington, Wyoming, Cal Poly, UC Davis and Colorado St. When and if these teams withdraw is largely unimportant as they are only making up the numbers.

This leaves 14 pretty good to real good teams.

East: Army, Navy, PSU, OSU and Kutztown. All good teams with only the Kutztown brand which hurts.

Mid-South: Life and Arkansas State. One dreadful and one poorish brand.

West: BYU, Utah, UofA, ASU, CU and AFA. Good brands and teams.

Pacific: SMC and UCLA. Small but OK and good brands.

There is no team going to promote to this competition other than Davenport and they might like to stay where they are in D1aa beating big name schools.

So there we have it, 14 teams. When a few of these teams start withdrawing its all over but the shouting.

Please don't tell me to calm down or not to freak out because like a lot of people I don't care one way or another if the D1a premier lives or dies.

For what its worth the tipping point is 2-3 more good teams and brands and its over.

[rugby fan]

Navy, all but gone.