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07 June 2011

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The best asset the US has is the American TV market. Europe has the strongest professional rugby leagues. US players will never get to elite levels playing in the US whether it be CPD or RSL. The US player pathway must include professional rugby. USA Rugby and NBC should work out a deal in which Europen Rugby is broadcast in the US in exchange for the European clubs opening up their teams to more Americans. Expansion clubs can come to the US eventually growing to an all US/Canada conference. Travel would be no worse than than Super XV or Tri-Nations (soon to include Argentina)

The purpose of the Churchill Cup was to develop the game in the US and Canada and it has failed losing money every year. Nobody is "falling in love with rugby" in America when the US natonal team is losing games 87-8.


The USAR put forth an Expression of interest in the last round of Super Rugby expansion. Melboune was a foregone conclusion as will be the inclusion of the Kings. However, this will leave an imbalance in the conference system. There's a good chance that a combined PI team will be brought into the Aus conference to even that up. A 6th team in the NZ conference will be needed. Guess who will be considered first.

Japan?

Argentina will get a team in an expanded Super 15 competition. This year history was been made in South Africa as for the first time ever a non-South African team is champion of the Vodacom Cup. In just their second season of Vodacom Cup Rugby, the Argentine side Los Pampas XV have been crowned champions after completing a 14-9 victory over the Blue Bulls at Olën Park in Potchfestroom on Friday evening. The championship win means Los Pampas XV have gone through the campaign undefeated. The tournament is used by South Africa as a feeder to the Currie Cup and Super Rugby with many players every year going on to play as full time professionals at the top level. This Los Palmas team is the foundation for a Super rugby side to be included in the Super 15.


Japan are busy developing their Top League structure and are beginning to see real results. They don't need Super Rugby as a conduit to professionalism. Argentina will likely form the backbone of a new South American conference in the near future.

Tonga up 10-0 and only 13 minutes into the game. Might be a long day for the Eagles.

well the yellow for a high tackle could help. While it was high, i don't know that it warranted a yellow. at any right, US will have the opportunity to take advantage of the Tonga sinbin.

13-10 at 34 minutes. Tonga still a man down.

Tongan scrum with only 7 because of sin bin still bullying the Eagles scrum.

Eddie O'Sullivan better sent an S.O.S. out for some props before the World Cup! Are guys are no where big enough for International play. Tonga just is killing them in the scrums.

Kicking for points at 65 minutes down 30-10. WHAT THE F&%$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So with the massive staff that USA Rugby brought to the Churchill Cup you would think they would work it out or know the laws about having someone run onto the field with a kicking tee. That was embarrassing to have your captain schooled by the ref about the laws of the tee coming onto the field during an international. Eagles staff is a joke and Eddie is definitely overpaid.

The Eagles were never really in this game and it was a weakened Tonga side because a half dozen or more of their best players are still on Super 15 duties or not released from their French clubs. Assuming Canada builds on their Italy A win and beats Russia and the Russians lose to Italy A, the Eagles are going to face them in the 5 vs 6 match on the last day of the tournament. They lose that game and you have to say the Eagles, Eddie O and the USA Rugby administration are a complete failure going into the RWC. This is a worse squad than the 2007 RWC.

45-13 lose by Eagles to Tonga has exposed how woeful USA Rugby's administration and coaching personnel is and this close to the RWC. The kicking tee fiasco was just plain embarrassing and an indication of how little professionalism Eddie has instilled in the staff. We are going backwards at a remarkable clip. Embarrassing.

the idea that Eddie O'Sullivan is bringing more to the table on 250k/year than any number of domestic coaches would be at 80-100k/year is so laughable that im going to develop a hernia. USA Rugby is absolutely WASTING 150k on nothing. What is the difference between winning between 0 and 1 RWC matches with Eddie O or a domestic coach?? Nothing.

Sadly this will also impact NBC and other broadcasters decisions regarding investment in 15s. The American TV audience will not tune in to watch the US get killed in 15s.

That said, good for Tonga. The small rugby nation has made great strides. Access to professional leagues in both hemispheres has made a big difference to their development. USAR needs to get US players more access to these leagues if the US ever hopes to be competitive.

USAR also needs to replace the entire coaching staff and executive management. Rumor is that USAR is leaning towards American coaches. Not sure this is the best idea. It is not a given that foreign coaches are better as evidenced by O'Sullian, but there is much more elite experience abroad. A player pathway must be established including regional select side competitions and access to foreign professional leagues.

@Sevens

We know from your prior posts that you prefer 7s to 15s so stop pronouncing doom and gloom for the 15s game. You sound like Brian Lowe with rugby league over union.

Wow, we suck.

@Embarrassed Eagle Fan . You should be Embarrassed by your narrow views of rugby trying to pit 7s against 15's and union against league. Rugby in the US needs innovative thinking and your ideas are old and tired. If you do not see the value of Sevens to all of Rugby you are a fool.

I like Fifteens as much as Sevens. I played 20 years of Fifteens and 5 seasons of Sevens. It is obvious that Sevens has more commercial potential in the US. Sevens can feed players into Fifteens. 7, 13, or 15 are all rugby. One form need not advance at the expense of the other.

@Sevens

Your motives are transparent. Stand down clown.

Again, I don't think that Sevens has more commercial potential necessarily. Right now it does because USA Sevens LLC is working well. Yes I get that they have investors. It's just being done in a better way. They don't only have investors, they have sponsors for their competitions and the Sevens team.

Right now 7s in the USA is benefiting from the good work done.

I also don't see anything biased against 15s in your post, don't know why that guy is being such a jerk.

And Russia leads Canada 18-15 at half.

Some good skills on display in the Canada vs. Russia match. Russia and Canada look miles ahead of the Eagles.

Many of the recruits we get for our 15s program come from our Summer Sevens program. All of the succesful youth programs are a form of Sevens starting with touch/flag and progressing to contract and then Fifteens. Sevens is helping Fifteens.

Sevens tournaments will only be played for 4-8 weeks in any given region leaving plently of room for Fifteens. On a club level, Fifteens creates much more revenue from dues than Sevens. Our Fifteens Tournament generates more revenue than our Sevens Tournament. Both Fifteens and Sevens are crtical for our club.

When your 15s side is rubbish you Yanks go on about 7s. Reaching at straws.

Canada is into the Churchill Cup finals after putting away a very capable Russian side. The scoreline flattered the Canadians, but well done!

Russia will lose to Italy A and then should get past the woeful Eagles.

I had an opportunity to work with Team Canada at last year's Churchill Cup as local liaison officer. Great group. I have great respect for the Canada Rugby program. The US should copy the better parts of the Canadian program. Additionally, Sevens is having success in the US and US clubs need to leverage that success to improve rugby in the US, 7s and 15s. If there is ever going to be elite pro rugby in North America, it should include US and Canada. Not sure if Canada would want anything to do with the US though.

seven aside rugby is not going to pull the eagles our of the 10 year tailspin they have been in. we need a total overhaul of the administration to start.

I'm just embarrassed by the score and by the level of play by the Eagles. I am SO glad I didn't get tickets for the World Cup. I've been a vocal supporter for the longest time, but I can't take the backslide anymore. They can't execute the simplest skills. Horrid affair on the field.

Is it just me or in those new kits did the Eagles look like some kind of Dukes of Hazzard County rep side? Did they play the national anthem on a banjo? Did they have a slave sale on the porch of the club house after the match?

Who turned my team into the Confederate Clowns?

The Confederacy doesn't claim those jerseys. If that was truly the stars and bars then there would have been a lot more fight in that dog today. My guess is those jerseys came from the Evel Knievel collection.

Just like the Eagles, the Confederates are losers.

Tonga went all Tecumseh Sherman on the Eagles and put them to the torch. Hopefully the Eagles recover a little quicker than the 140+ years it has taken the South.

"Civil war, such as you have just passed through naturally engenders feelings of animosity, hatred, and revenge. It is our duty to divest ourselves of all such feelings; and as far as it is in our power to do so, to cultivate friendly feelings towards those with whom we have so long contended, and heretofore so widely, but honestly, differed. Neighborhood feuds, personal animosities, and private differences should be blotted out; and, when you return home, a manly, straightforward course of conduct will secure the respect of your enemies. Whatever your responsibilities may be to Government, to society, or to individuals meet them like men. The attempt made to establish a separate and independent Confederation has failed; but the consciousness of having done your duty faithfully, and to the end, will, in some measure, repay for the hardships you have undergone. In bidding you farewell, rest assured that you carry with you my best wishes for your future welfare and happiness. Without, in any way, referring to the merits of the Cause in which we have been engaged, your courage and determination, as exhibited on many hard-fought fields, has elicited the respect and admiration of friend and foe. And I now cheerfully and gratefully acknowledge my indebtedness to the officers and men of my command whose zeal, fidelity and unflinching bravery have been the great source of my past success in arms. I have never, on the field of battle, sent you where I was unwilling to go myself; nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue. You have been good soldiers, you can be good citizens. Obey the laws, preserve your honor, and the Government to which you have surrendered can afford to be, and will be, magnanimous." - Nathan Bedford Forrest

love the comment on the official USA Rugby write-up "the game was actually a lot closer than the scoreline suggests"

pathetic

That is comical. ESPNscrum.com has a much different view as they interpret it as a thumping. http://www.espnscrum.com/churchill-cup-2011/rugby/story/141246.html

Here's another one.... http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10731139

One thing I do know is that a handful of the Tongan players (Morath brothers, Nio Halangahu etc.) are playing in the Shute Shield comp. This indicates the lack of a truly professional presence in the squad (don't tell me shute shield is professional, because its not, its a feeder club comp for Australian super rugby) Therefore, the age old excuse of having amateur players has been reversed on us as the USA team had a good handful of pro players.
Stop with the excuses and the downplaying of the size of the loss.

who the hell designed and ordered the kit...tacky and cringeworthy

they looked like a carnival side show

awful jersies

.

I was out at Esher last night for the Tonga match and it was obviously disappointing. There has to be accountability and any national team coach is going to be judged on the results. It is important to remember that the run of poor results didn't start with EOS. The US lost to England 106-6 back in 1999. This is not a new problem.

There isn't a coach in the world that would succeed in the current set-up. The performances over the previous decade have been a massive indictment of the US competitive structure- the overrated (and anti-competitive) Super League, the absence of a representative tier below the Eagles, too much 7s, the dearth of school rugby and poor facilities. Also, for a country that prides itself on producing world class athletes there weren't many on display last night. The Tongans were bigger, faster and tougher. Same for England on Saturday.

The US has to address the underlying issues rather than bitching about the coaching staff and looking for short-term fixes.

Does anyone know what the Eagles budget is during a RWC year? Would love to see what this MNT costs and how it is being paid for by the union.

any1 notice the numbers on back of jerseys? they were way up high and tiny

This time the Eagles lost to the England b/c side, not England.

That wasn't the Tongan first side either. At least a half dozen Tongans are with their Super 15 clubs or not release by their French clubs.

From what I can tell that was our best Eagles side minus 3 players; Z, Wyles and MacDonald. Personally I don't think MacDonald is going to be able to anchor the scum any better than our other options. Z is not much of a defender, so not sure if he would have been much help against Tonga yesterday. Wyles would have helped, but there is only so much you can do from fullback.

US players must have access to the more competitive leagues abroad if the National Team is ever going to improve. There are at least 20 leagues around the world providing better competition than RSL. RSL can be a feeder for foreign leagues. USAR can negoatiate with other Unions to allow more Americans on foreign sides. In exchange, USAR can help to get foreign leagues on TV in the US. If RSL teams are smart they will be able to get transfer fees for providing players to foreign leagues.

@Al - I think most here agree that a different coach is not going to change anything. But with a different coach, we can suck just the same for a hell of a lot less money.

Not to slag off a guy, but the one try the Tongan wing scored made one of our pro players look silly. Kevin Swiryn collapsed on the attacker and left his mark free to run down the sideline for a try. This is stuff that I see college players struggle with, but a pro? He either had a brain fart or he has no confidence in the defensive system in place. Or he doesn't have confidence in his team mates. Either way it is a case of a pro making an amateur error.

Any reason the Collegiate All-Star matches are not being webcast from Glendale?

The guy who knows how to work the Ustream set up is on vacation this week.

I thought the guy that knows how to work Ustream is in England with the Eagles gluing glitter on those sweet A$$ new kits! He is making 70K a year too!

Right, he's on vacation in England, paid for by my college team's CIPP dues.

A discussion at rugbymag under the article about the usa-eligible italian player brought up an interesting point. Someone said he shouldnt be allowed to play since he has already played pro rugby. And then someone responded "tell that to Thretton Palamo."

Didnt Thretton play pro rugby? And doesn't the NCAA prohibit players from playing college sports if they have lost their amateur status? So how is he able to play football for Utah now?

If that Italian center comes to the USA to play college rugby, he is really going to be in for a shock. Aside from a handful of teams the standard is a joke compared to the Italian pro league or what he could be playing in England or Ireland. If someone that knows this man can relay the message, tell him to look at the following:

Loughborough in England
University of Wales Institute, Cardiff
Hartpury College in England (Premier side Gloucester have their training facilities on campus)
St. Mary's College or Blackrock College or any of the other colleges playing in the Irish AIL top division

He shouldn't throw his pro career away playing in the USA

@college... It has to be pro in that sport several college football players have played minor league baseball during the summer.

NCAA Bylaw 12.1.2

Amateur Status if Professional in Another Sport.

A professional athlete in one sport may represent a member institution in a different sport. However, the student-athlete cannot receive institutional financial assistance in the second sport unless the student-athlete:
(a) Is no longer involved in professional athletics;
(b) Is not receiving any remuneration from a professional sports organization; and
(c) Has no active contractual relationship with any professional athletics team. However, an individual may remain bound by an option clause in a professional sports contract that requires assignment to a particular team if the student-athlete’s professional career is resumed.
(d) Receives, directly or indirectly, a salary, reimbursement of expenses or any other form of financial assistance from a professional sports organization based on athletics skill or participation, except as permitted by NCAA rules and regulations;
(e) Competes on any professional athletics team per Bylaw 12.02.4, even if no pay or remuneration for expenses was received;
(f) After initial full-time collegiate enrollment, enters into a professional draft (see also bylaws 12.2.4.2.1 and 12.2.4.2.3); or
(g) Enters into an agreement with an agent.

I actually know people who know him. I played about 20 years ago for the Serie A (second division) team that he played for in the 2009-10 season. I would give him similar advice.

that's good then. I just remember a kick returner for colorado not being allowed to play football after skiing in the Olympics

The obstacle with that guy was that he was not paid for being a skier but had to accept sponsorships to finance the skiing. I guess you can be paid to play another sport, but sponsorships are out of the question.

that is all NCAA bull crap...
nothing to do with real sports...

lets hope our rugby does not go into the lap of the NCAA...they are a real monopoly. the NCAA treats university athletes as moronic robots to be told what to do...

they NCAA rules manual is an est 700 pages...what a crock...

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