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24 March 2010


Stupid policy by USAR causing mountains of wasted time.

BTW this should not effect national policy. The strength of scool age sports is independant local governance.

If you want HS kids AND HS graduates to play in the U19 championships then switch it to the Summer.

This has created a competetive crease and an administrative nightmare at the local level.

Instead of debating the merits of this stupid policy administrators should be starting middle school teams.

Dumb Dumb Dumb. And the continued support of the (not really) single school elegibility shows how inept the leadership on the USA Youth committee is. That means you Chris Kaufman who came up with this to get his (kind of) single school team into nationals 2 years ago.

So now you have at the U19 championships team that come from Unions that only allow HS kids to compete. Against teams that allow college freshman and HS grads to compete.

no doubt those advocating the U-19 club format for HS are the same ones yelling about wanting USARFU to use the American model and not the commonwealth model...guys wake up cant have it both ways...even if not a single school HS players must be in HS

Dual-track is not uncommon. Twenty years ago, when I was in high school, I swam. I swam for my high school team and for a club side.

All that mattered for the high school team was that I was in HS, didn't matter that some of the guys we competed against were 20 years old cause they'd failed a couple grades.

All that mattered on the club side was age (15-16, 17-18, etc), not whether you were in college early or a drop out.

One track was administered by the state athletics department and the other by the national body.

The long term goal should be to get HS rugby under the state athletic association and away from USA rugby, while keeping U19 rugby under USAR.

I'm not advocating for one side, in California or across the states. The decision to run HS or U19 or both should be left up to the SBRO and USAR should support all three models.

I echo David's comment. I wrestled in high school and did the high school state championships and then the USA Wrestling Freestyle and Greco wrestling championship were very nearly after those championships and they were administered by USA Wrestling governing bodies in the state.

The one difference to this topic of discussion is that there were two different bodies organizing the two different championships...although both worked together towards a common goal and as such accommodated to other as needed.

It's not impossible...a commonwealth U19/U20 team sports model doesn't totally undermine the American varsity sports model that Kurt and other promote. See USA Soccer for notes on that topic.

Baseball, soccer, track all have the same school and club system. For the Cali example its simple, HS championships would be Rugby California domain, U-19 would be USA Rugby. I don't seem to have a problem with the '3-extra kids' rule. My high school had soccer, but the smaller neighboring HS did not so some of those kids would play for us. They didn't have the opprotunity to compete (regardless of club soccer) so they were allowed to cross borders.

Right now there are thousands of HS kids playing rugby. Very few of them are playing for 'Single School' sides; the vast majority plays for clubs. If the goal is to legitimize the game towards the end of recognition as a HS sport, then it is important that we restrict the U19 club players to those enrolled in HS.

To me the three main arguments for upholding the HS eligibility standard for U19 are:

1) Fairness in competition with Single School programs. There are simply not enough private school programs to fill a schedule – even in HS rich NorCal. Single schools programs need to play against competitive clubs and vice versa.

2) Ensuring opportunity for HS kids to play at the highest possible level. According to the USAR eligibility standard (http://www.usarugby.org/default.asp) any age-eligible player who has not played in a ‘Qualifying Match’ (a league match) for another club can play in U19 Club Championships. In NorCal that would mean that any Cal players that are age-eligible and did not play in a league match could technically play for a U19 club in the playoffs and championships. Certainly that would never happen in California. But it does happen in Utah. As a result HS students miss opportunities to play at the highest level.

3) Garnering legitimacy. Playing the game now as a HS sport – even though it’s not a single-school sport – will more naturally lead to it fitting into a school based model.

Rugby does not yet have the organization, administrative resources or just the sheer numbers to pull of a dual season yet.

The club soccer model is a successfull model and I think it's ok to run a season at a different time.

There is a major difference in the other sports we are speaking about. Schools do not compete in "National Championships" with their varsity programs.

Having 2 national championships at the same time really muddies the waters.

If we want a club based U19 championship, have it at another time.

If our goal is to have rugby in schools - then fine. That direction is made at the national level - well, the policies made at that level should facilitate that direction. Not detract from it.

Also - in regards to players at other schools joining programs we are talking about schools that mostly do not have the numbers or interest in building a seperate program. Rugby is still a growth sport. The opportunity ti start an independant program is being lost by sucking all of those players from potential stand alone programs up.

I live in a state where 1 major city has mostly club based teams. There are 4 teams that acount for over FORTY schools. 40. FORTY!!!!!

It's nearly impossible to grow in that area cause you are ripping kids away from established, successfull programs and putting them in startups.

What is the point of having college freshmen play high school rugby? You're better off playing in colts sides or even senior rugby at that point.

Seriously, a 20 year old has not been able to compete in High School athletics since the Korean War. Maybe your arm floaties were slowing you down?

States may be grouped in regions; there are endless variations and possible groupings, as most states are not defined

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