On northern California

If you dare call American rugby is a 'sleeping giant,' you've never been to northern California.

Despite stormy weather last week, match after match was relocated, rearranged, and otherwise brought off as countless volunteers surmounted unplayable fields and sundry other obstacles. The estimable Pelican's Beak chronicles a collective response that probably could not be replicated in the Commonwealth countries.

Truth be told, such rapid response happens all over America, all the time. But that part of this week's Beak which really belies the blinkered observations is entitled 'Youthquake'. I quote liberally:

When did ‘youth rugby’ refer to the high school game? Two years ago?

No more. So sudden are the changes it feels like a wormhole opened and deposited a Youth Rugby Quadrant into Northern California. So sudden, at least, to those of us who have not been doing the work for the past five years…

NorCal high school freshmen teams will consist largely of veteran players in a few years if what happens on Sunday mornings at pitches around Pelicanland is any indication, and college coaches will be working with players who’ve been living on the oval planet half their lives soon thereafter.

But the real story: little kids are playing rugby in great numbers and you need to see it to revel in it.

Host Lamorinda put three U12 teams onto the sub-divided Pat Vincent Memorial pitch simultaneously Sunday morning to play Santa Clara, Marin and Danville. I’m told that the visiting teams could all field multiple sides were they playing at home, and in fact their kids were playing intra-squad games among the non-travelers.

When we arrived, the U10s were playing in equal numbers.

The trouble with cliches like 'sleeping giant' is usually they are out of touch, just as bromides about 'the way forward' come from those who haven't lined the fields. NorCal's youthquake phenomenon stems from myriad unnamed locals who know nothing of USARFU's strategic plans, but stop at nothing in their enthusiasm to make a game they have always loved better for their children.

Quite evidently they are wide awake and working hard. It is only too bad such industry will not be visible this weekend, as world rugby's elite comes to the USA 7s.

Comments

[SD Hitman]

BREAKING NEWS - Int'l teams at LV are protesting width of fild.

[SD Hitman]

BREAKING NEWS - IRB teams are protesting width of pitch at Sam Boyd Stadium. Its only 68m and not the regulation 70m. Apparently Scotland has already pulled out. My teammate is a country liaison and phoned me about this. Cancellation of event is being whispered but nothing official yet.

[college]

my mind cant even comprehend what kind of disaster this would be

[SD Hitman]

UPDATE - All participating teams at IRB USA 7s just signed off on playing on narrow pitch and event will be held as scheduled. Mutually agreed width is just under 60m.

Scotland was the most vocal team about width and were very close to withdrawing.

It would seem logical that IRB won't use Sam Boyd Stadium as the next venue if they remain in LV. Is there another comparable stadium nearby? Perhaps a return to SD is imminent. Worst case scenario is that USA loses a stop on the 7s circuit. Surely there are other international cities with rugby-ready stadiums still vying for a stop. Let's hope it stays.

[No way]

I don't believe any of this for a second.

[Way]

http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=115984,1,22

This appears to confirm the field is indeed narrow, at least.

[college]

i admit my skepticism but take a look at this pic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sam_Boyd_Stadium.jpg

a football field is 48 meters or so wide. that means they would need to find 22 meters outside of what you see there. meters being longer than yards you can eye it using 20 yards of the football field. You can see it would be very close if not impossible. not to mention you need some sort of sideline and cushion before you get to the concret stands.

That said, it's incredibly hard to believe that USA7s as an org would make such a huge mistake and have it only be known a day before the competition.

oh american rugby...

[SD Hitman]

No way,

Event is going on as normal. We all can relax for this weekend at least....

All of my info comes from an extremely reliable source who has no reason to exaggerate or make this up. Call anyone you know (or who knows someone) who is involved with the tourney and they'll support what I've stated.

I want the IRB stop to stay here as much as anybody. Just thought you'd all like to know what is going on behind the scenes.

[No Way]

After seeing the pictures and reading that article, I believe it. I do, however, find it surprising that this is just becoming an issue now. Surely the IRB signed off on it before the stop was moved to Vegas, no?

Also, I can just hear all the college teams in the country who play on football fields now saying "hey, they play the Las Vegas 7s on something the width of a football field, we are fine continuing to play our rugby on a football field." Let's hope at least that the goalposts are still in the front of the tryzone...

[SD Hitman]

No Way,

Issue was first raised.....(are you sitting down)

.........YESTERDAY!!!!!

Does our beloved sport here in USA really need anymore oversight and slip-ups?

Unbelievable.

[No Way]

I just can't believe that. I know the work that went into selecting Vegas and Sam Boyd as the new event location. There is no possible way that was not brought up earlier than yesterday. I have too much faith in Prusmack and Co.

[SD Hitman]

Tourney might have known about it but probably didn't think it would be much of an issue to reduce pitch width by a meter or two. But when the teams started to arrive and walking the pitch, they probably noticed that fans sitting in the first row would be close enough to lift the jumpers in the lineout. Probably why its surfacing only now....

[curious on-looker]

plus there no actual minimum for the wiidth just a max of 70 m.

personally if i was playing 7's in vegas i'd want it narrow less cahsing the fast guys on the outside.

cant even blam NM for this one...

[college]

article above says 63 meters... thats not a couple. ugh

[Minimum]

Correct, there's no minimum, but the ideal is always 70m (unless you are Uruguay and want to line a 50m field for the 2003 RWCQ match with the Eagles). For an IRB 7s Series tournament, I would think that if it wasn't going to be 70m, the IRB would have been alerted to it.

[curious on-looker]

Agreed 70 is what I look for even at HS.

But the scots were complaining dont understand that they have no chance particularly out wide. Although Murry field does have the 22m try zones and the field is huge so maybe they felt a little confined

[Jack Sparrow]

Sounds like a troll out there getting all the natives a little restless?
:-)

[SD Hitman]

Jack

I would surmise that pitch width at 10-12m less than 70m is significant enough to merit reconsideration of LV as a site going forward. If the event doesn't come back next year, you know where you heard it first....

[curious on-looker]

measured it on Google and looks like the best they can hope for is around 60m and still allow reserves etc on the sideline

[curious on-looker]

and since we're measuring they will have a tough time with length given that its supposed to be 100 m long plus try zones and try zones are supposed to be a minimum of 8 m

[Youthquake Fan]

Kurt,

Thanks for the uplifting post about youth rugby. 'You need to see it to revel in it'. True words.

[Jack Sparrow]

Alright Hitman, if your not trolling and all this is true then someone needs to be fired.

Even though there is no minimum set by the IRB - this is the freakin' Sevens world circuit.

Before Boyd was even considered, that should have been the first question - embarassing!

LV won't get it next year and with the USA's embarassing form it probably won't be offered to the USA.

[college]

Sparrow, just look at a diagram of the stadium. its pretty clear there aint a lot of room there.

[Jack Sparrow]

College,
If there ain't the freakin' room to play international rugby, then it shouldn't be held there.

Or are there other factors involved here?

Ahem...Vegas!

No more from me I'm too embarrassed!

We are a joke!

[college]

I agree. was just showing u SD prob is right

[Zé Cacetudo]

"try zones are supposed to be a minimum of 8 m"

Not true. There is no minimum depth. Nor is there a minimum field length. See Law 1:
http://www.irblaws.com/downloads/EN/law_1_en.pdf

A lot of the pitches in the English Premiership have very shallow in-goal areas that appear to be ~4m. This is because some clubs play in soccer stadia.

Having said all of that, I'm sure the IRB isn't happy about this, and I'm very confident that the event won't be in the same stadium next year. Hopefully they move it back to San Diego - Las Vegas is the only reason I'm not going this year.

[Vic Drover]

What does any of these comments have to do with NoCal?

Congrats on the folks in Cali for such dedication.

[My Dinner With Andre The Giant]

Assuming this is all true, some of the responsibility lies with the IRB 7s organization who presumably permitted this location. Anyone with a Google could have figured out the size issues. It's not that hard.

[Michael]

I recall when my son was younger we started youth rugby in our Bay Area suburb 14 years ago. Tom Billups and Ray Lehner now the Olympic Club coach, who were still playing rugby came out to help coach 10/Unders, 12/Unders, and 14/Unders.

A few times we played at halftime at Eagle's matches in Boxer Stadium in SF. They were welcomed by Scott Compton,(then the manager) cheered by the many fans, and given a pat on the back or a high five by Coach Clark/

Many of those boys and a few girls are playing college rugby now. Those that don't play rugby still recall with pleasure how much fun they had and still are proud to tell friends they played rugby as a kids.

My son plays rugby at Cal, was a USA U/19 player playing in Canada and Guyana, and recently played in France while studying abroad.

He too, remembers the fun of being 12 or 13 and enjoying the simple fun of youth rugby.

Get the 7's out of Las Vegas and put it in Anaheim with Disneyland or Sacramento or San Francisco where we could fill the stadium.

[I Luv LA]

Put 7s back in LA. Put a fan center in LA Live downtown and bus the fans to the Home Depot Center. Both venues are owned by AEG, which could easily pull it off.

[crashtheline7]

This issue was known a long time ago. I read something about it when the idea first came up to play in LV. This is not a new issue and it would something the IRB would've already rogered up to. Don't get all worried guys. There will be plenty of room out there.

[curious on-looker]

Hype,

Althoug you are correct that there is nothing in law about minimums for anything field length etc there were guidelines issued a couple of years ago that said where 100 m field and 22 m try zones could not be implemented the try zones should be no less that 8 m and the field shortened from 100 m to accommodate. The premier league chooses to keep the field as long as possible and have VERY short try zones which is their choice.

Crash- check google earth and measure the width "plenty of room" might be a little stretch...

[crashtheline7]

From what I've heard....and just heard mind you. Is that the sidelines will be almost right next to the wall. They will probably not have anything on the sidelines as far as support staff and subs. Again just what I heard, but we'll have to wait and see what actually plays out.

[USA or Bust!]

The lure of holding the event in Vegas caused the organizers and IRB to compromise the integrity of the game. Tells you a little about the intentions of the old men in blazers. The IRB wants to crack the USA piggybank for broadcast and sponsorship dollars so bad that they would kill our union trying and just move on.

[63m]

I can't find anything on any news site about this field width controversy. I wouldn;t expect rugbymag.com to cover it, but if anyone else has seen something, I'd be interested in reading it.

[Does anyone have a tape measure?]

Is anyone really surprised? The IRB are not exactly world class when it comes to promoting the sport.

Why would anyone in charge of the tournament bother to do a site review prior to the venue change?

It speaks none too well of the event organizers either that they would leave San Diego for the glitter of Vegas without ensuring that the venue was big enough to hold the event properly.

Widening the field from it's current dimensions all that much will put player safetly at risk. Keeping the field narrow will hurt the quality of the rugby.

Well done!

Glad I chose to stay home.

[USA or Bust!]

IRB does a great job with the game, but they are too greedy.

[Does anyone have a tape measure?]

They do? Let's see what sort of broadcast availability there is for the WC in 2011 ... it's been so good so far

[USA or Bust!]

You obvously have no exposure to the world outside the USA. The RWC grew from a new event in 1987 to the third largest sporting event in the world, and a very profitable one. That is no small feat you philistine.

[SD Hitman]

Au contraire mon frere - IRB does a great job of providing broadcast coverage. There must be at least a dozen free websites I go to to watch test match live streams. IRB has been fantastic in not trying to shut these down during the events like other premier organizations do.

[Does anyone have a tape measure?]

Well - what would the sites be - please do share ...

It's great to see BBC America picking up the 6 Nations.

With regards to the growth of the WC - yes indeed it has grown BUT that growth has come almost exclusively within the traditional commonwealth nations and within that group primarily within England. This was clearly highlighted in a report largely ignored by the IRB.

The growth of the WC and the game as a whole will NOT be sustainable if the target audience remains within the Commonwealth.

Look at what happened to the 2011 WC. Japan, which would make a great host, were pushed aside by the old boys in favor of NZ.

The WC will not extend beyond it's traditional boundaries until 2019 - 32 years after the inception of the tournament. Not what I would call visionary.

Note too that the IRB determined that the World Cup window would exist in the fall months. Do you think that the US would ever be able to host the WC in the fall if the IRB were to stick to that decision? Not likely.

If you take the US as an example as a key growth area that the IRB themselves have identified the coverage of the RWC hs become progressively worse over time.

[USA or Bust!]

Another ignorant American chimes in. The RWC is the envy of every other Commonwealth game or any world sport in general. Throw in the 7s Olympics inclusion and the IRB has been one of the most successful world sport governing bodies bar none. Golf, athletics, football, cricket, et al would give a limb for the growth in worldwide numbers and revenue rugby has seen. The USA is just another big market like China and Russia are for world sport organizations. You are like a guy crying about the NFL not being on in Turkey. STFU.

[college]

yea heaven forbid an american be concerned about rugby in the us. how close-minded.

Anyways, will there be any sort of live coverage of the college conference? Maybe a webcast or someone tweeting or blogging from a blackberry? That would be great

[Flynn Hagerty]

"Golf, athletics, football, cricket, et al would give a limb for the growth in worldwide numbers and revenue rugby has seen."

Considering rugby was effectively starting from zero in 1995, that's damning with faint praise.

[Perspective]

Visit Gainline when I have the time- mostly for the free entertainment the comments section provides. Came across this post on the IRB Sevens site from the England Sevens coach when looking for scores from this weekend. Thought it was worth sharing since it gives a different perspective to the field width discussion here on Gainline. Ben Ryan's post was from Wednesday of this week, a day before SD Hitman posted that teams were unhappy with the width of the field.
According to good ol' Ben the English selected their team based on the narrower width of the Sam Boyd pitch. Here's the link to the whole post, an interesting read:
http://www.irb.com/irbsevens/columnist/newsid=2035591.html

And here's the specific excerpt on the field width:

"Playing the conditions..

One interesting factor here in Vegas is going to be the size of the pitch and how the different teams approach it.

It certainly affected the team we selected and we've also learnt lessons from history and other tournaments where the pitch has been narrow.

At the Manchester Commonwealth Games in 2002 it was a fairly narrow pitch. New Zealand picked a team accordingly and went on to win it.

We've got a very tough group anyway in Argentina, Wales and Japan and have picked a team accordingly, but as a coach you'd be remiss not to have a look at the environment.

I'm not giving anything away, but there will be an element of physicality and confrontation in Vegas with the narrower pitch and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that in that scenario your out-and-out gas men might not be getting as much space initially as you'd have hoped, so you have to have other plans to bring other defenders in to make space for the outside runners, so it's going to be very interesting."

[college]

Anyone go to the college conference and want to give a fill-in?

[Vegas 7's]

It would be interesting to see how many tries were scored relative to other tournaments. I watched most of yesterdays matches and thought it was really pretty exciting stuff.

Also - what was the attendance yesteray - looked to be a pretty sizable crowd.

All in all I would say the width of the pitch didn't impact the tournament in a negative way and to the extent that it encouraged some hard fought close quarter play it may have made it a little more exciting in some aspects.

[Pete M]

FYI it looks like there will a highlight show of the Vegas 7s on ABC this coming Saturday at 5:00pm

[Jack Sparrow]

Any news from the USCRA meeting in Vegas?
Was it well attended?
Any fist fights?

[Eagle fan]

Was at both days at LV. The pitch was visibly narrowed after the fact as the original touch lines, 5m, 15m lines were greened out in favor of a shorter field. Awesome action all weekend, I'm so glad I made the trip and as much as I'm not crazy about Vegas, I'll happily return next year!

[college]

all this hooopla over the uscra meetig and college rugby in general and no one here or on rugbymag/arn has even mentioned how that meeting went.... cmon.

[SD Hitman]

http://www.rugbymag.com/features/opinions/goffonrugby-the-payoff-in-vegas.aspx

Field concern did get attention but in the end it was no biggie. Here is excerpt from attached URL:

"The field. Most 7s tournaments line a field that is 65 meters wide. USA 7s tried to squeeze a 64-meter field into Boyd, leaving a few meters between the touchline and a heavily-padded concrete wall. The teams protested, saying that despite the padding the wall was too close. So the field was re-lined to be just under 60 meters wide. Well within specs, but not as wide as a lot of teams wanted.

The result? Well it didn’t produce a series of mauls and rucks. The rugby was still thrilling and they still scored points. The average score game featured 32.3 points, as opposed to 35.8 in Wellington – less but not that much less. Average points per game in San Diego last year was also 32.3. In fact, the number of points scored in the last two USA 7s differed by exactly one – 1,421 in San Diego, 1,422 in Las Vegas.

Some teams didn’t adjust as well as others – witness Ben Gollings’s repeated restarts going out on the full. But New Zealand captain DJ Forbes told me the narrow field was like rain or heat or wind, just a condition to be handled. Many, including Forbes, thought the narrow field favored more physical teams, but it was hard to really see that borne out in the results – physical Australia beat flying Fiji, but then lost to speedy Samoa. The USA won the Bowl and they were a power team in many respects, but South Africa and Fiji won easily over their more hard-hitting opponents in the Plate Semis, so it wasn’t clear-cut.

Perhaps the message there is there are no narrow fields, only narrow minds.

In the end the field issue seems to have gone the way of the commute to the stadium and the concern Vegas isn’t a kid’s place too – to the land of No Big Deal."

Issue seems dead now. Stay tuned....

[USCRA Update]

From: ccoates
Date: February 16, 2010 11:52:08 AM CST

To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: USCRA Update

Dear Collegiate Rugby Community,

With regards to the attached documents - Apologies for the repeat mailing for most of you, however, it came to my attention that our original multiple email contact lists had not been completely merged together. Similarly, apologies for the delay in getting this to you for those that were not included in the original emails, hopefully you already got all this information from the rugby news websites.

The USCRA is currently waiting for a response from Nigel Melville with regards to gaining the requested USCRA representation on the USA Rugby College Committee. This was to have been presented to the Board and Congress at the Vegas 7's event. While we are hopeful that this request will be approved and further that this particular committee will have the dominant role in managing the collegiate game, the following statement embodies the primary difference in vision between the two organizations.

Melville - "The Director of College Rugby will work closely with a newly formed College Committee to achieve the objectives agreed by the USA Rugby Congress and Board"

Whereas the USCRA would like to achieve the objectives put forward by its member colleges. Obviously many of these objectives are the same, however the USCRA approach involves engaging the colleges directly and involving all interested parties, particularly Athletic Directors and Club Sports Directors; whereas the USA Rugby approach is the same old top down method from a Board and Congress that have not yet proven to be in touch with the potential of collegiate rugby in the USA, making it likely that the agreed objectives may not be reflective of all, or perhaps even the majority of college rugby teams, at all levels of the game.

The USCRA is currently proceeding with the objectives laid out in the attached documents.

Best wishes to all,
Craig Coates
Chair, Interim USCRA Board

[college]

pretty much where they were before vegas i would say. text of the "attached documents" or a summary of the conference would be great.

[USCRA Update]

Sorry, attachments didn't come through from home to my email at work. However, if you've been getting the previous emails from Craig Coates, they were three already distributed pdfs: USCRA Update 2-3-10, USCRA FAQs 2-4-10 and USCRA Logo announced.

Nothing new other than the text posted earlier.

I was not at the conference so I can't speak to anything else.

[I was there]

The USCRA meeting was pathetic. About 10 people there, and no real agenda. These guys don't have a pot to piss in. Write it off as a loss.

[LOL]

This must be why we haven't heard from McNamara and crew. 10 people, what a laugh.

[oh well]

USAR is just crushing these USCRA fools. Melville is such a prick, this is his type of politics. Nice guys like these coaches aren't any match for a game player like Melville.

Still the amount of hype involved is damaging to the USCRA. Creating a release about how they voted on a logo, when they can't get a dozen people to attend their much hyped big meeting is killing them.

[I Was There]

The USCRA's logo is a ripoff of USAR's All American logo, which I'm sure they own the rights to. That won't last long. FAIL.

Also, these guys aren't "nice". They are just as power hungry as Melville. Wait and see how many aply for the College Rugby Director gig @ USAR. I bet all of em think they are the right man for the job.

[mike]

Are the youth teams in Nor Cal playing with XV kids on a side?

Good numbers, interested in the format, e.g. could be XI's, or X's, etc.

Good stuff, love to hear more.

[college]

Why would college coaches want the college director position?? What a dumb statement. The facts are that expecting to get a pilgrimage of coaches to vegas for this conference when most of them are volunteer coaches was asking a lot. But I'd like to know if it accomplished anything or if there has been any headway?

[Money]

Headway? 10 guys sitting around talking. Melville the crook, is kicking their ass.

Send me your dues and shut up, I need a raise.

[check]

what they are going to need is broad support for putting a stop to dues payment. How else can they force USAR's hand?

[anon]

They need a plan other than USAR sucks.

Everyone in college rugby understands college rugby is being ripped off by the USAR administration. People understand the potential value of college rugby and that this administration is fudging it up.

But if the USCRA wants to grow and become something they need some ideas.

Reduced the scope of their undertaking and propose something. This is how they will gain some momentum.

[Flynn Hagerty]

"Are the youth teams in Nor Cal playing with XV kids on a side?"

As far as I know, yes. The high school program at SFGG was 16 kids in 1999, there's five sides now plus U14/U12 and I think even mini rugby.

It's pretty freakin' awesome and should be a blueprint on how to grow the game.

[Eagle fan]

Nor Cal High Schools all play XV's rugby. There are terrific numbers with full side B and C side matches as well. A local U-19 club in my area recently added U-12 and U-10, and they're packed with kids! I believe for total teams they have Varsity, JV, Soph/Frosh, U-14, U-12 and U-10.

[Mike]

Thanks for the youth XV comments.

Youth = before HS.

HS= HS Rugby.

How to develop in the US: Stop worrying about the width of the pitch in Vegas, start worrying about how to get 10-13 year olds playing Rugby. You can't do a thing about the width of the pitch, any pitch other than the one YOU line.

You can do everything about the number of kids playing Rugby. Go find some kids in your neightborhood and teach em how to play, and instead of buying them 2 beers, buy em a rugby ball for $10. Teach them to kick, drop kick, tackle, evade. Every Sunday. Pretty soon you'll have XV and you can go kick the other neighborhoods butt. Soon you'll have a league and then youre onto something.

50+ comments on Youth Rugby! How disappointing, and how telling, to hear people complain about the width of the pitch at a game they didnt play in!

Get over yourselves and get in the game, and the game is Youth Rugby. Without it, Rugby is a bunch of old guys pretending to be Englishmen. When there are 400,000 kids playing the sport, parents wont allow their kids to play on anything less than a world class, 75m pitch.

[Gordon Wright]

Too bad this post got hijacked by the field width of the USA 7s. But I did want to comment in case anyone is scrolling through looking for ideas on creating a youth rugby program, because I guess I am one of the "myriad unnamed locals" in Norcal. Pat Farley, Rob Lopez and I started the Marin Youth Rugby Club in 2005 with 14 kids, of whom five were our own. By last year, we'd fully merged with the outstanding Marin Highlanders organization and now the program serves roughly 180 kids from ages 8-18.

I have 44 kids playing on the U14 team, and rugby has taken off like a contagion in Junior Highs across the county. "It's like lacrosse was six or seven years ago," one middle school PE teacher told me recently.

Anyway, if you want to grow the game, start a Youth Program. All it takes is a bit of organization and effort, but it repays itself a thousand times over, not just in advancing the future of the game, but in personal fun and satisfaction.

On another note: it's true. We're a thousand miles removed from Boulder, both physically and metaphorically, but I do applaud their Rookie Rugby initiative, which is introducing the game to schools through PE teachers nation-wide. For anyone wanting more help, just visit www.marinhighlandersrugby.org and our contact 411 is on the site.