2009 in Review: Q4

Here are some of the more memorable stories from the fourth quarter of the past year, thematically grouped. I'll look to follow up on these trends in 2010.

High school & College

• Dartmouth, Brown vie for regular-season Ivy title

Senior & Representative

• To the World Cup: USA 27 Uruguay 6
• Moral victories now real: USA 27 Uruguay 22
• Ontario 27 USA 'A' 24
• Fiji match cancelled
• RSL revamps for 2010 season
• Belmont's RSL exit an economics lesson

Commerce, Policy & Administration

• On 7s admission to the Olympic Games
• 7s: Did USARFU sell too cheaply?
• 2011 World Cup woes menace US plans
• On misreading the Arnot era
• Emirates in Eagle 7s pact

Comments

[uscra vs cal to the death]

Jack Clark says f u to the uscra and the snowy TUs on the latest college podcast.. Uh oh.

[ARN podcast]

Brian Lowe is absurd on that podcast. His ideas are just sooo dumb. He brought the idea of bowl games into a conversation about a college super league. He just holds onto college football and uses it for every point. He called bowl games really american! Did he noticed that all of america hates the bowl game system and wants a national championship?? And the Jack Clark bloviates about how we should really get this college super league thing done. Get sponsorships, get tv deals, etc. Well Jack, before the uscra, who was in the best position to lead that? You. and you just yammer on about it without making a move. The claremont college guy just sits in the background and agrees with everything Jack says or asks Jack's opinion about something as dumb as "What happens in the super league when some teams fluctuate between being very good and very bad each year" Well Jonathan let me sit you down and give you some wisdom. An infant could have answered that question. Lastly all 3 of them cheer for how OBVIOUS a single spring season is and how that will be the move college rugby makes. Once again. To Jack Clark and everyone else who doesnt understand how a climate works, WHERE do you want the northeast, marfu, midwest, and the west teams to play their matches?? You canNOT play matches inside without posts or a high ceiling. Teams cannot get on fields till the middle of march. WHERE do you want to fit a league schedule for them in there? Instead of addressing that problem the 3, all from california, just say it has to happen. And then to top it off they don't even address the possibility of a fall season. And Jack follows that up with a veiled threat to anyone that thinks there should be one, that "some teams are VERY commited to playing in the spring" and even says that if there was a movement to the fall then there would be 2 national championships. Brilliant Jack! That would make a great college rugby product to sell!

[anon]

Yep Yep and Yep.

JC seems to understand the issue at least. I think he is just argueing against a Fall season.

What the heck is wrong with the way it is now? I don't think that it is wise to have it in the Fall either. Teams that qualify do the best they can with what they have. The point is the main season IS in the Spring... it's called the national tournament!!!

As far as a national league goes if you talk about any more than 6 weeks it just won't work in the north. You have maybe 1 weekend in March then all of April. Finals are the beginning of May. It just won't work no matter how hard Ognall blows into the microphone.

And by the way go ahead. Break off. West coast and south minus every cold weather school.

But if your talking about brand recognition you just eliminated Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Boston College, Kentucky, West Virginia, Virginia, Indiana, Purdue, U of Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa Missouri, Nebraska, Michigan State etc!!! That list goes on and on.

And the collegiate market for sports is very strong in the Midwest and Northeast. Check the attendance and ratings for major college athletics.

If the goal of becoming mainstream succeeds these are going to be the strongest markets along with the southeast + Texas. tis is not an insult to the west coast - I know they have a strong following. But South Carolina Football brings out 60,000 football fans EVERY saturday. And they finished at 500.

Also - Strength of team should be second to strength of following. Teams get good and bad that is a variable. The constant is the pull that major universities bring with alumni, fans and sponsorship. YOu want a plan for a top 24 take the biggest tradition programs from the Pac 10, SEC , Big 10 and Big 12 to start. Add in maybe some other teams with draws (yes the service academies bring a draw relative to the audience that rugby would start off at.)

What is going to grow the sport a Cal v BYU matchup or a Texas v Florida matchup?

This brings another point - PRODUCT. Not quality of play. I mean uniforms, facilities, professionalism, asthetics.

Give me a league of SEC teams with facilities and uniforms - who cares about quality of play.

And I came from a high performing Mid Major. St. Mary's v San Diego State doesn't sell tickets or draw TV audience. Those teams are doing a great job but the sport will gain market share on the backs of Ohio State v Michigan.

The Big 10 tourney got it right. they have Northwestern over Bowling Green (3 time regional champ). Penn State travels like 13 hours for little competiton. Why? Cause media, admin, fans and new players GET THAT. Quality of play has nothing to do with it. They are creating a product with Penn State v Wisconsin and OSU v Michigan. And BGSU will gain the benefits when they kick the pants off of Purdue or some other Big Ten school.

Also - I don't understand how we can trumpet the "american varsity way" and bring up relegation and promotion... This is completely foreign to Americans. Noone will understand it.

Why is everybody afraid to have a last place team. If the #1 team plays the #25 team in football or basketball the result most times is going to be one sided. So what. Schools are cyclical. And if they don't get better it's tough on them. The UCRA or USAR will NEVER improve the quality of any team unless they start paying to place coaches and administrators with programs. Even then they would need student buy in...

As long as I'm making an epic post:

Want a good playoff formula? Take the winners of each region or conference or whatever and put them in a playoff.

National championships are to determine Champions. It's not called a "Fair and Balanced National ranking Tournament".

If you're stuck with Cal and BYU tough luck. Rugby has too much appeasment. Play on Sunday so kids don't miss school. Only champions advance. Lose and your out. If the third team out of SoCal wants to prove they are better than the Northeast #2 schedule a game.

Whew...

But those who work to improve the game keep on keepin on. Moving any direction is better than standing still!

[ARN podcast]

Eh you are almost just as bad. Keep it as it is? Quality of play doesn't matter? Laughable. Yea I am sure Texas vs Florida with shiny uniforms would draw huge. Riight. I'm sure 80 minutes of knockons and the ball not getting past the 12 will make for a great product. Men's and women's soccer is in the fall. They get fans. Why not rugby? Fall or spring, a decision has to be made and the country has to go with it. There are going to be enormous growing pains either way but it HAS to be done. It will get better every year after that. Lacrosse plays their national championships middle/late may so if we do go spring nationals would just have to be pushed back some how. Going to need massive sponsorship/dues (relative to what there is now) to do anything. I'll take the uscra whatever over coaches who are just speaking into a microphone. Cant wait to see what they come up with. At the very least it will start a serious conversation. And what happens if, say, they come out with a couple million dollars and a tv deal for the season to move to the fall? Is Jack Clark going to lead a split? will any teams really follow him? Not everyone has the Witter family backing it. And what happens if it is a move for the spring? Will the mid-atlantic and northeast not find someway somehow to claw and scrape a season together to make it happen? Going to be interesting. It would be nice if Brian could get someone who lives somewhere else besides paradise to talk about it or MAYBE even someone from the USCRA to talk about it! They call that a "scoop" in the biz Brian. Trust me it will help the hit count.

[anon]

Really? Compare the TV ratings of Ohio State v Oregon or Penn State v LSU and TCU v BSU.

Or the football attendance of Michigan (3-9) vs the attendance of Cincinnati (12-0)

Or the attendance of UCLA vs the soccer attendance of Akron (2nd in the country.)

It's not opinion - it's FACT.

And we're not just putting a game up there we're creating CREDIBILITY. Trusted traditional powers make sense. That's just how it is. High School kids will get a Texas Florida game. Try getting them to understand and get excited about Life v St Mary's...

Again - why would it matter to you if someone played int he Fall. That national championship is in the Spring.

It costs money to house students after school is done. Rugby is a club sport most places and even in varsity programs you are not gaurunteed to get funding to keep the kids in dorms.

Th NE and MA DO deal with it... they have preliminary play in the Fall.

Marketing people will tell you... Product Quality is important but marketing is essential.

[ARN podcast]

Just because something is true or is written in all caps doesnt make it relevant to the conversation. Football is the most popular sport in the country and something every campus rallies around because it brings in the most revenue.

A moment to blow your mind please. The national championship game for lacrosse last season put 49,000 butts in seats at Gillette Stadium last year. Who were the huuuge brand name schools playing in the contest?? Must have been huge football schools like Ohio State or Notre Dame or Florida or USC. Oh wait, it was even better. Syracuse vs Johns Hopkins.

So which sport is more analogous to rugby? I'm going with lacrosse. Lacrosse built its sport recently through grassroots by making it big in high schools, youth, and college. It built a fan base out of all those kids and their families. a rabid loyal fan base. I dont think I'm overstating it when I say that rugby produces that kind of enthusiasm once a kid is exposed to it. I'm not saying you are completely wrong. Big name matches like Army/Navy and a PSU/Ohio State and a Cal/Stanford would be more marketable. But you're suggestion that we slap new jerseys onto really crappy clubs just because their football team is big is really exxagerating the point. Kentucky?? Do they even have a team? I guarantee Xavier or Jesuit would put 40 points on them if they do. But there are marquee brands rugby ready and they will be the flagships for the super league and supplemented by the Kutztowns, St. Mary's, and SDSU's of the country.

NO sport in the country has a split season. And every college kid in the nation is sick to death about having to explain the fall and spring seasons to potential fans. The single season is a must if you want it on television. That's not debatable to most people in position to do anything.

[anon]

I see what you are saying - I will say I know very little about lacrosse but I know the 2 teams in the game are among the best.

I also understand that some major teams as they stand today wouldn't be good to broadcast - but these have to be a priority if we are going to gain footing quicker.

I also compete with LAX every day growing the game at the youth level. There are too many reasons to list here why they have us whooped. The biggest is they started at 0 - rugby started at -1. The same admins, teachers and parents are the people who witnessed "Our drinking team has a rugby problem".

Rugby must be presented in a safe and consistant way to get their kids to play. Not only that but soccer got big by working its way into an elitist crowd (as well as mainstreem kids). when these kids grew up they donated and supported while pushing their kids to share the experience. This above all else has supported growth.

In rugby the experience of the great experience of soccer is still being replicated (to put it kindly).

People who grew up playing the common brand of youth rugby or even college rugby are way less likely to support it. And I'm not talking about the 1%ers who love it. I'm talking about the guys playing 3rd team at Penn state who were just looking for some good friends and good competition.

Those are the exact type of people who's backs soccer is built on.

Until we build an experience and product people trust we will narrow our percentage of players that give back to the game.

That's why I put less emphasis on quality of play.

We will be more successfull creating a quality experience for 1000 average kids than worrying about the top 300 players in the country.

Likeable, trustworthy administrators with organized, consistant vehicles to introduce the game.

[ARN podcast]

So we need both. And we can have it. If college rugby can be governed by a body that actually cares and works for it. Hopefully the uscra or someone is able to do it!

[Zé Cacetudo]

"South Carolina Football brings out 60,000 football fans EVERY saturday."

Another reason not to play serious rugby in the fall - at any level. And I say that as a former northeastern college player.

I think the solution is an extended spring season, and playing the game on the new artificial surfaces when it's not possible to play on real grass.

[ARN podcast]

soccer gets fans. they play their matches during week nights and wkends when football is away. And rugby can run past soccer. Thats the solution. Its that or you are going to need a lot of money to get big venues in big areas like lacrosse does since there are no people on campus in middle/late may

[college fan]

I thought Jack's comments were spot on. Create a college national premier league. Disregard the TU's in the process, they are broke and will never be fixed. Equal team representation for each of four regions. Spring competition.

The only question is will USAR do this or will an investor.

[anon]

To the fellow that started this thread by saying JC said fu*k you to USCRA, it isn't true. He couldn't even spell the acronym. I don't think JC gives a rip about the politics of USAR vs USCRA. He said as much.

He wants a 24-32 team college super league. Maybe the USCRA should be pushing for the same thing.

[Theo]

First, great discussion. Not as much venom being thrown around as usual.

I just don't see anyone being able to sell a 24-32 team college super league to sponsors and fans. I'm not in the least bit interested in it and I love college rugby. Most collegiate sports conferences (not leagues) have no more than 15 teams. A giant league is not the answer.

Why not take those same 24-32 teams(which would be the new Division 1), break them up into four separate conferences and give those conferences unique names that can be marketed? Then take the winner of each conference and have a playoff for the National Championship. A four team playoff will eliminate the drawn out mess that is the current playoff structure and give a few extra weeks back to play conference games. This could help the teams from the colder parts of the country squeeze into the Spring season.

Yes, this leaves alot of good teams out of the playoffs, but with the heightened level of competition and focus on conference play, the schedule is basically a drawn out playoff anyways. Isn't that what we want? Better competition, marketable conferences, bigger matchups, and a single season?

Now, if you had to take 32 teams and create 4 conferences. Who would you pick?

[East Coast]

I'm a former MARFU college player, and I know this solution isn't perfect, but how about a Spring-only season with matches starting in mid-March in the colder climates BUT with two A-side matches a week? Maybe a Wednesday night match and a Saturday match in the same week. That way you could play 10 matches in only 5 weeks. I know that is not ideal but with lights available at all the major rugby schools now, it is feasible. I know football plays only once a week, and that rugby's impact on the body is the most like football's. But College Lacrosse, Soccer, etc., all schedule weekend and mid-week games. If this is the worst case scenario, it really ain't that bad.

[Theo]

I think mid-week games will have to be considered in order to finally get everyone on the same season.

Now, back to my above challenge to divide up 32 teams into 4 conferences. Gah! That's going to be a tough one to work out. Some tough cuts and geographic considerations will have to be made to whittle the pack down. A more encompassing approach may be to have 6 conferences with 6 teams apiece.

[West is Best]

How about this? East coast South and Midwest stick to lacrosse, and the West and Pacific will do the rugby in the USA, and do it right in the spring. If we grew rugby in the West and Pacific to the level that lacrosse is, we could then expand. Let's market the game where it is already successful and build from there. Jack is right to say that the teams on the left coast are going to do it up the right way and the rest can bitch or get on board.

[anon]

SOLUTION: All college rugby plays matches NO earlier than 3/20. Even warm weather teams.

(This is supposed to sounds absurd so we can put in perspective telling the best way to prepare.)

There are more colleges in the NE and Mid Atlantic than any other region combined.

And the MW is the largest population of rugby players in the country.

The fall is used to develop skills and players, find cobinations and devleop a culture. The Spring is the championship season. But as a product of the split season I can tell you I did not know on eperson who preferred Spring ball to Fall rugby. Fall was fun and there was a rythem. Spring was a dead sprint with 8 weeks of indoor turf training, track and pool conditioning @ 6 in the morning and 11 at night. Then away games on Spring break plus away matches at least 8 hours away for 3 weekekends in March. THEN we were able to practice outdoors as the ground thaws in April (it ruins the fields if you play on unthawed fields the U doesn't allow it). Then it's the first week of April and we have 3 weeks until Natioanls...

Also we went from a rookie class of 40+ in the Fall to less than 15 in the Spring.

These are not excuses - just reasons why rugby will alwyas be played in the Fall - Period. It was played when we had TU playoffs in the Spring and when we had TU playoffs in the Fall.

The point is the strength and health of many teams comes from the Fall. Not many people will forfiet the advantages of playing Fall rugby to appease USAR UCRA or anyone else.

How about this -

Each territory competes as they see fit but the Natioanl playoffs are in the late Spring no matter what.

In addition we will focus marketing and media on the best Spring competition doing our best to show broad based traditional schools in a varsity environment. If televised and marketed it must be in stadiums with teams that organized and professional in their apporach.

Everyone else can do what they want but this is the product we are going to show potential fans, parents and admins.

Guess what... this was actually done in 2009. ESPN showed Call and BYU in a stadium with fans and varsity calibre teams. (And St M v Utah or whatevr it was).

We don't need to re write things.

The 20 week lead up that the west coast enjoys does not fit in cold weather states. It doesn't and it will not.

You can still focus all resources on Spring competition (and USAR does) while letting teams prepare how they see fit.

I don't know that anyone dissagrees that we don't want to compete with football. We don't have to. Those samepeopel wouldn't complain if they didn't see any marketing or media push for them as it was used rigthfully in the Spring.

Rugby started with 30 guys in a park somewhere. Thinking you cn send a decree down from somewhere to banish an entire season is just not realistic.

[typical]

Lacrosse = American = good

Rugby = non-American = bad

[Brand New World]

Funny, soccer is non-American and it's doing pretty well. Way better than lacrosse.

Same goes for Hockey.

The argument that a sport must be American made to be successful in America is weak. It'll all comes down to leadership.

[West is Best]

Being Americans we should all agree that the market decides how the college rugby calendar should look. Let the East, Midwest and South have a fall season. We in the West and Pacific will do our spring season. Let the sponsors and broadcasters pick which competitions they want to support. The losing coast falls in line. I would think that the west/pacific wins hands down. Mostly because the spring has a window for a team field sport that doesn't exist in the fall, which has soccer and football. However, I think the support, fans and programs, are there on the West/Pacific to make it feasible quickly. West is best when it comes to rugby.

[Please]

Is anyone argueing for a fall only season?

I am starting to think some people just like trumpeting "west is best"

Cal is best. BYU has recently been best.

Other than that it's year to year with most programs pretty evenly distributed.

Seriously... is this going to degenerate into East V West?

[USCRA Fan]

You are all off base trying to pit the west against the cold weather locations. There are several NE, Mid-Atlantic and MW teams that are committed to playing in a new Spring championship. I know of at least 7 top 20 teams from these areas.

Who cares if a few of the teams that wouldn't be asked to participate in a Spring premier competition only want to play in the Fall. Teams can play whenever they want. The only truly top team from NE that is bitching is the guy from Army.

Also, I hope the teams continue to play in some of these new traditional sports conferences that are being used like the SEC, Big-10 etc. This premier competition won't use up all the weekends. This is a real chance to grow the game both locally, regionally and nationally.

I'm a fan of the USCRA and I hope they embrace this idea before USA Rugby does. I think it is a big mistake for the USCRA to promote the Fall as the championship season. I not sure if its just the Army guy or its an important aspect of their platform, either way its a real mistake for them.

I don't think the better teams will allow 100 NE colleges to decide when the play and when their championship will be played, especially because there are so few great teams in NE.

Finally, I thought having the domestic college and club 7's season in the Fall, just before and leading up to the international 7's season the right idea.

The Eagles will really have a chance to roll into the international season (Dec-May) with some quality sevens under their belts.

[West is Best]

Let's be honest here. There are about 12 to 16 elite programs in the USA. The majority of them are on the west coast. Plus the west coast has been the most consistent place in the country to bring out crowds for rugby. High school championships in Utah brought out 5000K plus people. Cal and Stanford have filled their facilities for college championships. Nor Cal Eagle matches have the best attendance. Spring rugby HQ'd on the Pacific Coast is the answer if the desire is to have a commercially viable product.

[Anon]

Once again - already happening.

[KISS]

I think Jack was on point in the podcast. The newly formed USCRA can manage the college game other than the premier national competition, and Jack and the rest can manage the top flight. The premier competition should be the best 24 teams in the country willing to commit to playing in the spring. If you don't want to play in the spring and belong in premier league, just be the king of the USCRA pile. Simple.

[sevens expert]

We continue to play our summer sevens tournaments as we always have. Then in the Fall we play in organized regional tournaments, at both the College and Club levels.

This will produce a true sevens season (between the summer and early Fall), leading to sevens domestic national championships in the late Fall.

The best of our sevens players will then promote to the Eagles for the international sevens season beginning in December.

All of America's serious XV's will be played in the Spring leading to the Churchill Cup and Summer tours. The World Cup is played in early Fall. This is the perfect build-up to each one of these competitions.

Who can't understand this???

I for one am sick and tried of hearing bitching from teams that have snow on the ground in Jan, Feb. I live in NE, we all get it, it snows. We have also been playing Spring rugby in NE for 60 plus years.

We need to be grownups about dialing in a sevens season (my interest) as well as a fifteens season that makes sense from both a domestic and international perspective.

This isn't about any one region. This is about common sense.

[East is the Beast]

This west coast rugby elitism is just stupid. The rugby soul of this country is in the East and therefore with Fall rugby. Deal with it. East is the Beast!

[heartland]

Beast,

The national championship count at the HS, College and Club divisions doesn't bare out your brag. Talk about elitism!

How about all the east coast teams that have never won anything, continue to play in the Fall, and those east coast teams who are the best of class, join the rest of the nation in Spring xv's and Summer-Fall sevens.

How did the USCRA become a Fall only college organization?

[huh?]

Who from the uscra said the season will be in the fall? I need to see that quote.

How about this. Whoever goes out and gets the money in sponsorship and tv deals picks the season? You're all telling me that if someone says they have 5-10 million and want to play in the spring or fall the rest arent going to fall in b/c it means changing something?

[shep]

Easy Fix.

Competitive Rugby is a Spring sport. As soon as we get this, the game will improve.

If you want to play the best rugby available in the States, play the meaningful games in the Spring.

10 game schedule Feb March April
Those who can't play that many, play less games.

Mid May final 16.

Memorial Day weekend Quarters and Final.

Abolish all lower level Championships.

Remove all former National Champions of D2 and D3 from historical records.

Let those who want to play social rugby (D1,D2,D3) play social rugby any time they choose to be social. Just call it something else, like the Marquis of Dinglebury Rules or Fugby. Play with 16 or more or 14 or less, play with mismatched socks, knee pads and your underwear outside your pants.

Supply all former members of social rugby championship teams a black sharpie, so they can change the R to an F on their t-shirt.

[your answer]

Huh?,

One of the founders of the USCRA, Rich Pohlidal (ARMY), said the USCRA was only interested in a Fall season for fifteens rugby.

He claims that the 100 or so, mostly small colleges in the NE will only vote for Fall rugby. D1-D2-D3 sides all get one vote in the USCRA plan, so Pohidal might get his wish.

I'm betting that more teams, some from the MW, NE and MA, and lots from the western and southern states will continue to play in the Spring.

The USCRA stance on Fall and the main fifteen's season will hurt them.

[College Rugby Fan]

RE: USCRA
The organization has not made any public statement other than their mission, vision and values, which none mention anything specific like they support only fall rugby. My understanding is that they are going to have an inaugural membership meeting at the Vegas 7s.

[One of Jerry's Kids]

from the uscra web site

"Explore playing all Division I, II, and III Men's and Women's Rugby in the late Spring Sports Calendar to capitalize on the gap in the Collegiate Sports Calendar, and build a uniform season"
BTW - USCRA is NOT the United States Calf Roping Association

[sources?]

- Show me a link to the uscra website

- there are not 100 college rugby teams in the northeast

- the teams in the uscra are made up of teams from all over the country including stanford/byu.

- show me a link to a quote about the 2nd and 3rd things.

Not saying you guys are lying but if you're going to quote or talk about a website it would be great to get a link

[your answer]

The USCRA doesn't have a plan. Not Fall or Spring. First it was a complete and total takeover of college rugby, now it will all be decided in LV.

All that's fine, but one of the drafters of the original takeover plan still archived at rugbymag.com, Rich Pohlidal, has been calling every coach in the country trying to get them to sign up for Fall only rugby. There is a strong connection between the USCRA and Fall only college rugby.

It might be that the other USCRA members have told him to put a sock in it.

A spring season will get the USCRA far more new college members. I hope the USCRA is successful in whatever they decide to do. USA Rugby SUCKS!!!

Oh and btw, you're correct the NE doesn't have 100 college teams, the Northeast has over 180 college teams, between Met NY, New England, NY State. They are among the worst college teams in the country, but they have more teams than the Pacific Coast, Southern California and West combined. The left coast and mountain boys better get their votes in.

[sources?]

well then i stand corrected. 100 teams? that is a lot of trash with all due respect to the northeast. For god's sake you would think more than 2 or 3 of them would figure out how to get a high quality program together with 50 years to do it.

So no one has answered this. What happens if someone like the uscra, a private investor, jack clark and co. comes to college rugby and says I have 10-20 million in sponsorship, investors and a deal to get college rugby on espn or somewhere else regularly. Will they get to choose the season or will people still stick to their guns? Are people that committed to playing in the fall or spring not to follow something amazing like that?

[sources?]

oh and someone quoted the uscra website. is there one or not? or were they just quoting a site where uscra info happened to be?

[anon]

There will never be any "investment" dollars for Fall college rugby, because the investor would lose their ass.

[sources?]

Why. College soccer is successful. Rugby cant compete with soccer?

[typical]

let the calf-ropers have the fall, & USA Rugby have the spring. Then in the late spirng, The "Super" College Finals can be played.

Follow the KISS principal.

Championships are in the spring.

Do whatever is best for the Union the rest of the year.

[KISS]

The window in the college sports calendar is in the spring. If there is real ambition to grow college rugby in the USA, rugby has to be a spring sport. Sponsorship and broadcast partners will not support another fall field sport in college rugby. At the moment there are the following fall and winter NCAA sports:

Men's & Women's Cross Country
Field Hockey
Football
Men's & Women's Soccer
Women's Volleyball
Men's Water Polo
Men's & Women's Basketball
Women's Bowling
Fencing
Men's & Women's Gymnastics
Men's & Women's Ice Hockey
Rifle
Skiing
Men's & Women's Swimming & Diving
Men's & Women's Indoor Track
Men's Wrestling

That is 16 sports many with men's and women's competitions. That is a lot of college sports programming and options for sponsors. Plus two are popular field sports (soccer & football), which use a similar facilities to what rugby would need. With football and basketball contributing huge revenue to most schools athletic departments, it makes them priority sports.

A look at the NCAA spring sports:

Baseball
Men's & Women's Golf
Men's & Women's Lacrosse
Women's Rowing
Softball
Men's & Women's Tennis
Men's & Women's Outdoor Track
Men's Volleyball
Women's Water Polo

You are looking at 9 sports, and none of them dominate the landscape or are played on facilities that would be required by rugby. College baseball gets hot in June with the world series, but none of the others are dominate on the sporting landscape.

A 10 year old could tell you that rugby should target the spring as its season. Compete with lacrosse and 8 other minor sports and not soccer, football and basketball.

[One of Jerry's Kids]

come on guys (gals), it wasn't that hard, and this is from a guy who went to school on a short yellow bus.
http://www.midwestrugby.org/uscralaunch09.htm

[USCRA vs USAR]

KISS,

USA Rugby is so glue-less they can't even get out in front of the obvious.

How hard is it for them to make general policy statements, like, duh, college rugby is a Spring sport leading to the international season (Churchill Cup, Summer Tours, early Fall RWC). Or college and high school rugby has the same Spring season. Or college 7's is played in the Summer-Fall leading up to the beginning of the 7's international season in December.

How do you think the USCRA got the little traction that they have. Answer...a completely lame and clue-less CEO, Board and Congress comprising USAR.

I don't think there is a ranking official within USA Rugby that has ever visited an American university much less understands how the sports calenders work.

I think the first organization that figures out the general policy arguments first and begins to create real plans, like Jack Clark's idea for a college premier competition, wins.

It should be an interesting race in the next month. Can USCRA build momentum or will USAR pull their head out of the arse in time to demonstrate they really are the national governing body of US college rugby?

[The Screen Play]

No bets on Nigel and the Board pulling their collective heads out.

I'm betting the USCRA gets off the ground. They then sit down with USAR through the offices of Nigel Melville.

In true Saturday Night fashion, the representative from the USCRA says to Nigel, "Do we look like Mrs Melville to you?", "Well, no", Nigel says. "Then why do you want to make sex on us?"

After a very terse meeting. Nigel not fully understanding the value and importance of college rugby, agrees to a new deal where USAR still collects a few dues buck for continuing to do squat, while sanctioning USCRA as the new college org.

Flash forward a year, or two, and USCRA has a high priced executive director, several employees, rent, expenses and budget that almost meets the expenses and payroll.

The D2 women are pissed that they aren't getting an equal share of sponsorship, even though they refuse to wear the same uniforms.

D3 mens teams demand a beer keg on the sideline as their "membership right", they voted in the "right" at the last USCRA AGM in LV, which was funded by a wealthy businessman.

Meanwhile D1 college rugby is now considered an elitist, apartheid endeavor by the majority of the USCRA college membership.

A new group of college coaches calling themselves the United States College New Rugby Association (USCNRA) begins to make plans for taking over college rugby.

The USCNRA floats a few press releases on the web site of a different rich guy, who agrees to rent them a meeting room. Several college rugby coaches sign-up with the USCNRA, well because, they've never been asked to be in any other club...and the power is intoxicating.

In a last minute agreement Robert Redford agrees to play Nigel Melville in the screen play, while Bruce McLane plays a heavy-set angry dike representing the USCNRA.

[central casting]

That Internet sensation Star Wars fat kid should play Bruce. Either that or Rosie O'Donnell or Oprah in white face.

[hypothetical]

Once again. Apparently there are some slow people out there. let's role play. I'll be some new entity that wants to do college rugby. Not necessarily the uscra b/c i doubt things are going this well for them. But just a hypothetical entity with a hypothetical proposition. here we go..

Me: Hi college rugby. I have 20 million in investment/sponsorship money and a deal with espn2 to televise live 4 big regular season matches and all the national playoff matches from the elite 8. We are going to provide significant support to your college club if you join. Stuff like paying for transportation/lodging for playoff teams and event costs, etc. I am the real deal. All this can be yours if you join. The catch is I want the entire season to be played in the fall. Is anyone going to fight me on this?

Given that hypothetical what is your response? Dont say it will never happen. Just tell me if you would really say no

[shep]

ScreenPlay,
That would make an interesting movie, but I would suggest someone else for that role.
Peter Sellers (Being There, 1979) would have been a lock in the role of Nigel Melville.

Quotes:
"I like to watch."
"Yes. In the garden, growth has it seasons. First comes spring and summer, but then we have fall and winter. And then we get spring and summer again."

It wouldn't be a stretch for McClane for that specific role or even a transgendered rep. I think Mr. McClane is quite talented.

I'll go a step further.
Based on the the fact that a 5'9 flanker (Matt Damon) played Pinaar, McClane could have certainly played Os Durant in Invictus.

As for rugby, it is a Spring sport. For those who have cold weather, tough luck, try your best. Like baseball or golf or any other Spring sport, the North will have their work cut out for them. The better players will attend Uni with warmer climes. There isn't anything wrong with that. It happens in Football as well.

I don't know Podihal, but competing with Football or Soccer in the Fall is idiotic and a detriment to the long term. Only the selfish or stupid would vote for Fall only Rugby. Rugby is a Spring sport. When we all understand this, the game will blossom.

[typical]

nothing is free.

[Kiss]

hypothetical -

Here is an hypothetical. A huge national brand contacts the 24 best snowboarders in the world and says we are going to have a winner take all 10 million dollar snowboard half-pipe competition on the sun. We'll make snow, so don't worry about that. You're an idiot.

[hypothetical]

Yea kiss that is a similar hypothetical. Good work. Your debate abilities are one notch above an infant's and you should be proud of that.

[Kiss]

OK. I'll give you a serious answer. Yes some college rugby clubs would take the opportunity/money, if their universities even let them, and the venture would fail. Happens all the time in sports. To a greater extent with sports events not leagues. Sports like motor racing, golf and tennis where a company spends like drunk sailors to get all the talent lined up at a great facility and then nobody shows up at the gate or tunes in on TV. The only successful long term sports ventures are the ones that are built from the ground up and fit naturally in the sports business landscape. Lacrosse and soccer (after a few massive failures) have made it work.

But here is your hypothetical. An antiques dealer from New Orleans who was instrumental in brining the NFL Saints to New Orleans imagines a pro football league that plays in the spring and summer that will rival the NFL. He signs up 12 cities to have teams in the first season and they get a TV deal immediately. In the first season most teams go over budget by having overly optimistic attendance and viewership projections, which accelerates franchise churn and angers owners. The league only lasted three seasons and lost over $163 million. The name of the league was the USFL.

So sure there are a lot of idiots throwing their money at bad sports business ideas. Rugby should organize around a good idea (spring collegiate rugby) so we don’t talk about a would of, should of, could of in 3 years.

[hypothetical]

Well it would never happen if "some" colleges went with it.

I think this is the way to go. Right now fall season is the only way to have a practical national single season. I think after a couple of years maybe a move to the spring season would be practical. I don't think this attitude of saying to snow-bound teams: "fend for yourself. we're going spring. figure it out for yourselves. and if you cant figure it out then you just wont be in it." Without those teams this thing is not going to work. I am for whatever season that is going to allow every team to play. So I guess if is spring then the season is going to have to go much later than the academic calendar. National championships in late may. And the season wont start till mid march. Going to need to board all those players for a month. That's going to cost some good money. Whatever the solution, this thing will NOT work if you cut out the teams that cant get on the field till mid spring. Maybe if it is a national dues organization then the warm weather colleges can subsidize flying the winter teams south for the early league matches and then the south teams north for other matches.

Start coming up with ways that everyone can actually play in the spring besides "figure it out".

[Virtual Reality]

Let's take a step back and get real for a minute. What business man in his right mind would put up $20 million with absolutely no chance for a return on investment?

Butts need to be in the seats to make money and there is no way that rugby is going to put fans in the seats going toe-to-toe with college football in the fall.

I've always stayed out of the Spring vrs. Fall debate, because it always turns into a flame war. But, if I were a filthy rich business man looking to invest in an emerging sport with broadcast potential, I would make it contingent on all teams playing in the same Spring season. I like rugby's chances against baseball more than football any day. Actually, I like the chances alot.

Yes, it sucks for the Northern schools, but those same schools face uphill climbs with baseball in the Spring too. The last Northern team to win a National Championship in D1 baseball was in 1966. The NCAA has done their best to try to level the playing field with set start dates for all schools and limits on number of practices and games each team can have. Rugby can use similar guidelines to stop some teams from playing 20+ games which will clearly give them the upper hand over a team that has barely played 10 come playoff time. In the end it's just going be part of life in the North though.

If everyone had a start date of the first weekend in March (still very rough for the boys up North), then that would give everyone roughly 8-10 weeks of rugby and then a couple weeks to have playoffs. Much like in baseball, Northern teams often have to travel South for the first couple weeks just to get in games. Again, part of life in the North.

That's enough time to get in 6-7 conference games and a couple big non-conference games (gotta have those for the broadcasters). If you want to get some extra games, then schedule them mid-week against D2 teams in your area. Give everyone a cap of 12 games (not including playoffs) and see what happens. This will require a clean up of the horribly messy playoff system. But that is desperately needed already. No more TU seeding tournaments, no more Sweet 16, it's just not needed. Let's start over with 8 conferences of the best Division 1 teams in the country. Each conference champ goes onto the playoffs. End of story. If it catches on and makes money (which then can be given to teams for travel) then another round (or two) can be added to the playoffs.

[West is Best]

North has hockey and lacrosse. West and south gets rugby and baseball. Done. Stop crying like a little bitch and deal with it.

[T-Rex]

Real nice work Troll, keep fanning the flames while others have a perfectly fine conversation.

Here's a news flash, broadcasters will never move forward with any sort of major $$$ deal or project unless the entire country is on the same page.

Better go out and make sure no one stole your "Give Blood, Play Rugby" sticker off of your truck.

[West is Best]

Hey T-Rex lacrosse has been on TV for years and it has never been much of a national sport. You don't know what you are talking about. Beach volleyball was micro-regional (coast of southern California from Santa Monica to Redondo) and it grew to be an Olympic sport and then brought the game around the country. It was home grown and then they go their act together and go the sponsors and NBC on board. Regional success is the way to go (NASCAR, beach volleyball, ice hockey, etc). Take that bumper sticker off your 1972 windowless van that says, "Don't Laugh, Your Daughter is in Here!" You tool.

[Beagles]

Why not set up two regional leagues and see who wins the college sports marketing challenge. The east with a fall league or the west with a spring league. The more talented teams are in the west, but there east has some good brands. Not sure if the east with their 10 man rugby is going to convert the casual fan, but maybe they can fight like a bunch of hockey idiots. My money would be on the west to become the dominate league commercially.

[T-Rex]

Touched a nerve with the troll. Glad to see you finally backed up some of your flames with actual logic.

By the way, is that what we really want to be? Regional? We're already a niche sport as is and you want to exclude and alienate a massive portion of the country?

Keep on trucking brother.

[hwhat]

10 man rugby?

[West is Best]

Nearly every new sport (last 40 years) that is a viable commercial product in this country started regionally.

Ice Hockey (northeast & canada)
Beach Volleyball (so cal)
NASCAR (Florida)
Surfing, Skateboarding, BMX (so cal)
Bowling (midwest)

I say you build the game on the west coast where there is a fan base and good programs already in existence. Show sponsors and broadcasters that it works and then roll it out nationally. No sport has ever thrown a blanket over the whole country and had success.

[koothyman]

Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!Rugby Sucks!

[koothyman]

The Screen Play |

That was hilarious! MORE !!!!!!!!!
MORE !!!!!!!!!MORE !!!!!!!!!MORE !!!!!!!!!MORE !!!!!!!!!MORE !!!!!!!!!MORE !!!!!!!!!MORE !!!!!!!!!MORE !!!!!!!!!MORE !!!!!!!!!

[SoCal Rugby]

Spring season is the only option for so many reasons. The college super league is a great idea. If the east coast really has that many problems than let them play all their away games the first half of the season and have the west coast teams travel east later in the season. Regardless of how its done it has to be spring. If the east coast doesn't want in than so be it, the vast majority of teams that can compete at that level are on the west coast anyway.

[hwhat]

None of this matter. my point has been is that whoever brings in the money will make the decisions. Everyone is being silly with cutting out the east teams or doing this or that like something already exists.

The money will make all of the decisions and the people who dont like the decisions will have to get over it and go along with it

[West is Best]

east coast rugby is weak. lots of college programs, but very few of quality. rugby doesn't need 100 D2 and D3 beer leagues.

[anon]

All the snow teams want to play in the Fall is a myth. This isn't true, the most historically successful team from the east, Navy, wants a championship Spring season. Some of the other "best teams" in the mid-atlantic, northeast and mid-west also want a Spring championship season.

The best teams from the Southeast are also in favor of a Spring season.

The strongest teams in the country in the Pacific and Southern California want a Spring championship season.

I would like to point out that Utah has lots of Jan, Feb, March snow...they want a Spring championship season.

Name one school, other than Army, which is any good, that wants a Fall championship season. There isn't one. Oh there are a few really poor teams that want the whole country to play when they play, but their case for doing so is poor.

[Take two]

Better yet.

What if, in one of the most anticipated performances of the year, Bruce McLane first played the part of a chubby frat-boy with a drinking problem, who just happened to be a B-side prop and song maestro for a Northeast D3 college rugby team. Before a Mrs Doubtfire like morphing into the heavy-set angry dike, later in the film. Bruce's character, named Pat, is also the spokesperson for USNCRA.

The Nigel Melville part should also be recast with the 5'4" Dudley Moore, replacing Redford. Small, white and pastie with a carefree attitude...perfect!

[my head hurts]

1) LAX although a small sport compared to football, basketball and baseball, is the fastest growing sport in America.

2) LAX has nothing on rugby as a sport, in fact, it is an inferior game and not an international game.

3) The best college LAX teams are in the East. The Northeast is very strong in the sport.

4) The NCAA and club college LAX season runs from Jan-May. The same season being suggested for a new college league.

5) College LAX is an outdoor field sport. Only a few, of more than 100 teams, play in indoor facilities. Most travel during the early part of the season before returning home to play in the Spring sunshine.

6) The high school, semi-professional and professional LAX seasons are all played during LAX season in the late Winter-Spring.

7) High school and club rugby is a Spring championship sport. If rugby wants the synergy that LAX enjoys by way of seasonality, it will be in the Spring.

8) Rugby has everything to win this Springtime sport battle but the leadership to end this dumbass conversation.

[Can't touch this]

Mr. McClane is the cream of the crop. None of you could fill his size 7 shoes.

Sure he puts his pants on one leg at a time. But, when he pulls up his 40x28, there is extra material pleated to accommodate his juevos. You trolls would look like MC Hammer if you tried to walk the walk.

[I'm Down]

We need a Rudy type story for Bruce.

Smash Cut to a Down Syndrome baby falling out of his stroller and then he pushes it with his massive head like a baby rhino....a special prop is born. We follow him through his youth until he gets into a small New England college with a sad sack D3 rugby program that he single handedly turns into a regional powerhouse winning the NERFU D3 Down Syndrome League and is immortalized for wearing a 12 pack box as a scrum cap in the final. He gets a reach around from the dyke ref at the post match piss up making it the best day of his life.

I say we get that Corky guy from Life Goes on to play Bruce.

[sinking Navy]

Haha. lacrosse plays indoors because the the ball doesnt go higher than 50 feet. Now in rugby there is a little thing called kicking which is a bit difficult to do in most indoor facilities. Not to mention indoor facilities dont have posts. No big deal I guess. play on!

Navy is NOT historically the best team. Not even close. PSU or Army or even a Harvard. So sick of hearing abotu Navy. they are crapola. Go look at the nationals history and tell me how many semi-final appearances they have.

[facts]

Come on Sinker, what's your prob.

You say Navy isn't even close to the historically best team from the east! Not even close! Dude the facts make you look dumber than most posters on this site, which is pretty freaking hard.

Lets look at final four appearances.

Penn State which has spent more time in the Mid-west than the east has 9 total appearances, four the last decade. Really good.

Harvard, 4 total appearances, one the last decade. Not bad, good team.

Dartmouth, 3 total appearances, none in the last decade.

Army, 10 total appearances, three in the last decade. Very good record over the the last 30 years. Most of their success came in the 90's, 5 of 7 between 1989-1995, and four in a row between 1999-2002. The current team, under the current coach, has been the least successful of all Army teams over the last 30 years.

Navy, 10 total appearances, four this past decade. Since 1994, through last year, they have made 8 finals appearances in 16 years.

Not only is Navy the most successful East team, they are the most successful college rugby team in the history of USAR behind only Cal.

Sinker, I'm sorry to put some facts on the record, but if you've got a bone to pick, you have better be ready to back it up.

Sports are funny that way, they are different than comment boards. You really do need to have a record to talk the smack.

[sinking]

Sorry. Meant to say final and not semi-final appearances. Of which I count zero for Navy. ZERO. Sports are funny.

Anyways you are right. Saying not even close is a ridiculous statement but I was trying to match the ridiculousness of someone calling them the best. I am sick of hearing about Navy. They are always in the conversation for best team and yet they missed nationals 2 years ago and will likely miss it again this year. They got smoked in nationals last year.

But they are a solid team. They are a marquee brand too. So I hope they improve. They just need to learn how to do something other than playing it tight with their forwards pack. Until then, stop pumping them up.

[facts]

Sinker,

The only thing that's funny about your comments on college rugby is how often you are wrong.

Navy has indeed advance to the national championship final, the title match. They are one of only 15 colleges to ever play in the college final.

What is your real beef? What's wrong with the United States Naval Academy playing a tough forward orientated brand of rugby. They have athletes new to the game, but with toughness. They are high school wrestlers and football players learning a new sport. It seems like a solid approach. They play similar to the Air Force Academy and West Point. Winning rugby is good rugby and Navy are winners. Is that what you really don't like about them, that they are winners?

BTW, giving a team their due, what they have earned on the field, is not pumping them.

I'll pump you if you what to get off the key board awhile.

[wow]

Hahahaha that guys wants to pump the other guy.

And he's right. Navy is solid. Just no longer elite. And army doesnt play a tight game at all. They are capable of playing a much wider game than navy for sure. See the fall blowout

[facts]

Sink/Wow,

I would change my handle too, if I was called out on being wrong in several consecutive posts.

When defending the factual rugby record of the US Naval Academy, which "guy" is getting pumped-up?

I agree the Black Knights are equally solid, but they don't play this wide expansive game you suggest. At least not in the way of the more skilled teams.

AF, Army and Navy are similar in having really good athletes. The ball-handling isn't great but the athleticism is fantastic.

As for the Army-Navy Fall match, these things go in cycles. Army currently has the upper hand. This is how it works. Some years Harvard is better than Dartmouth, then it reverses. Same all across the country.

The term "elite" isn't bestowed in a day, its earned over the long haul and it is tied to the competition being referenced. Navy is elite in US college rugby, just as Army is.

[wow]

While I disagree with sinker i also disagree with you. Navy isnt horrible but they are currently not elite. Elite IS determined in the present. The Steelers are arguably best all-time nfl franchise right now. Are they an elite team right now? Not at all. If we want to talk about elite programs historically then you are of course right. I just dont think right now that Navy is anywhere near elite. Staying home from nationals 2 out of 3 years will verify that right? That is if they do get beat by PSU. I guess we'll see, but Navy is definitely not favored.

And Army plays a much much wider game than Navy. They aren't St. Mary's but lets just say they have a staff not obsessed with winning with and only with its forward pack.

[just my opinion, but]

If the term "elite" is only determined by current finals appearances, then by definition there could only be 4 elite teams at any one point in time. This doesn't make any sense in the context of US college rugby. A far more meaningful definition would be national playoff appearances, where once again Navy featured.

US rugby has 100's of college rugby teams, it makes sense that the top 20 teams are elite in the US context. About 5-10% I believe.

I also think historical performance plays a part in the definition. Take the AFA for example. They are winners of multiple national championships, but have really slowed over the last several seasons, despite making the round of 16 in 2008. Elite or not? Historically yes, currently to your point, maybe not.

Navy is different, they are a playoff team every year and a finals team 8 out of the last 16, or, on balance every other year.

Your love affair with the Army coaching "staff" is strange. Army, style of play not considered, is having the worst stretch of performance in Army's long gray line of rugby.

In recent seasons they have been defeated by Cal Poly and Tennessee. Missing the finals completely most years. Even last year they qualified very narrowly for the finals, only to be beat by a Cal second team in the semis. Cal made 10 changes for the final and still got beat by BYU. How good was the BYU 2009 team!

Is Army elite? Yes they are. Here is a better question, what would a new coach like Dan Payne do at Army, if they had called before Life? Answer, compete for a championship every year.

[wow]

Thats a joke. Your point was that military academies can only do so much with the non rugby athletes they get each year and so have to play a forwards dominated game. And now you're saying that with Dan Payne they would be competing for a championship. I have no idea who is on the Army staff except Pohlidal. I do know he has made it rain for that program. Ive seen pics of their complex and it is amazing. And I have seen them play and they use their backs well.

Navy MISSED nationals 2 years ago when they lost to Kutztown. They got whupped last season by Dartmouth and they will probably miss nationals again this year since they have Penn in the first round. That has been, I think, the point of this conversation. Navy is no longer elite. Yet you want to change the conversation and make it about historical records and nonsense like that. Navy got whupped by Army at Army in the fall. And followed that by getting smacked by PSU at home. Giving up 20 points in a driving rain with very strong wind? Not a good sign.

I dont dislike Navy. I hope they get going again and modernize their style a little bit. Going forward we are going to need Navy as a cornerstone of college rugby. So go Navy! I say.

[Army Fan]

I'm pretty sure Mike Mahan raised the money for the Anderson Rugby Complex.

But if Pohlidal is the "rain maker" I'll stand corrected.

[wow]

I stand corrected then. Sorry, dont know everything about the program. Was just giving credit since it happened when he was Director of rugby.

[Military Academies]

The sport of rugby is going to start to pass the military academies by, as they have been passed by in most other sports (football is the most obvious example). It won't be immediate, but it will be soon. It is deifnitely already happening with Navy and Air Force. These teams used to be dominant when all schools were starting with kids who had never seen a rugby ball before. The academies had better, fitter athletes, so they were good. Now that there are thousands of high school rugby players going on to college to play rugby, the military academies will only have athletes, while other schools will get actual rugby athletes. It takes a very special person to commit to the military academy lifestyle and subsequent commitment to the country, and I don't see alot of the premier high school rugby players choosing that route (if they even could get accepted, which is highly unlikely).

[Ridgemont High]

Military Academies is spot on. The thing never mentioned by the rugby press or blogs is that what makes St Marys and Cal top college clubs are the number of high school rugby players they have been getting each year for the last 5 to 10 years. Soon all colleges with good coaches and facilities will be catching up with these teams with recruits with high school experience and then college rugby will really get interesting.

[maybe]

Very true Ridgemont. But lets also be clear that Cal and SMC where good and among the best college teams in American before there was any HS rugby.

I'm not just referring to their long histories of rugby. If you go back to the beginning of our national championship as recently as the late 1970's early 1980's, there was no HS rugby and the best team then are still the best team now.

HS rugby has improved the play across the board, but it hasn't changed who the best teams are.

[maybe]

Very true Ridgemont. But lets also be clear that Cal and SMC where good and among the best college teams in American before there was any HS rugby.

I'm not just referring to their long histories of rugby. If you go back to the beginning of our national championship as recently as the late 1970's early 1980's, there was no HS rugby and the best team then are still the best team now.

HS rugby has improved the play across the board, but it hasn't changed who the best teams are.