Gone fishin'

Normally when Gainline.us goes quiet, it signals business has overtaken. For the next two weeks, however, I'm on vacation. See you soon.

Comments

[Dickie Boy]

F* that bullsh*t! How are all the haters suppose rail against this congress? What about all the people that want to post about how the RSL sucks or those that think there should only be one club per metro area?????? C'mon man!

[congress member]

DPR,

Truth hurts huh?

[Hyde Rugby]

Rugby on National News, Fox News Channel see link

http://www.realamericanstories.com/hydemodel-rugby/

[college rugby question]

What's the word from the MW, is Mullet's college team at Grand Valley State still cheating?

Man it's good to be the eligibility chair.

[college rugby question]

What's the word from the MW, is Mullet's college team at Grand Valley State still cheating?

Man it's good to be the eligibility chair.

[word]

You mean the Michigan D2 champs 2005-2007?

Yep, right there are their website. Players from the local community college and several local small colleges all still play on their team.

It is a good look inside the usa rugby board of directors. The big shot board can't even have an official link with a small college in Michigan. The rugby team has different eligibility rules than the other club sports at GVS, a different mascot and no official presence on campus. Nobody at GVS even knows who John Mullet is and he's making college rugby decisions for the rest of college rugby.

Viva USCRA!!

[college coach]

Sadly, there are plenty of college teams that have students who are not eligible under USA Rugby eligibility guidelines playing on their teams. The question is whether or not these players actually play in league matches. I'm guessing that for league matches GVSU only uses players who are eligible. If they didn't, I'm guessing there would be protests from their opponents.

[Bruce McLane]

I am making another shameless plug, but Todd Clever just did a pretty cool interview with Djuro Sen and I on www.ruggamatrixusa.com and I hope that if you listen, that you will enjoy it.

[Old Board]

how about a board member thinking this was in the best interest of growing the sport of rugby at the college level?

just another foreign dude who doesn't understand US sport.

[FRD]

has anyone but i seen the video at ARN with the 7's tourny try and when watching the russian try, think to yourself, who's the new american, then realize that the mistake was that russian 7/s jersey looks exactly like the new usa 15's jersey?! red adidas.

[FRD]

And only diff being, the USA patch and Russian patch and the Russians wear red socks, USA wear blue socks. Why must we change our kits so much...sales? Forget provider issues, I mean keep the color scheme consistent. Maybe I'm too old.

[college rugby]

Bruce, where is all the rugby league talk? I thought that was a staple of rugby podcasts? Other that I love it. Way to go. With this and your college rugby info compilation you've had a great year of giving back to the game

[Go Eagles]

The Eagles have replaced several players because of injury.

Does anybody have the word on Zach Test? Goff reported he's playing for Loughborough "on a rugby scholarship", but nothing adds up. They have five teams, three of which play in the BUSA 1,2,3 divisions. Goff seems to think he plays for the firsts in the Premier North comp and that he scored three tries a couple weeks ago, before the team gave him the "weekend off to rest". Sure they did.

Test isn't among the 56 players with photos and profiles. He's not mentioned in any of the match reports. UK Statbunker doesn't report him scoring tries.

Does anyone have the story on which of Loughborough's teams he plays for?

[HRT]

That is the BUCS, which is the Uni sports comp. I'm not sure what div he plays if he plays.

[Go Eagles]

Thanks hrt. The story also said he was a former football player at Oregon, which got me to thinking because that angle was also overplayed. I'm not sure he was on the Oregon football team, for sure he never played. Goff would always publish this grainy photo of him in warm-ups. The Oregon football website list complete rosters going back a decade, to include the 2007 team, 90 players and no Zach Test.

He might be the real deal, but should he be referred to as the "former Oregon football player" on "rugby scholarship at Loughborough"?

[Things that make you go hmmmmm]

http://www.heavensgame.com/competitions/us-superleague/denver-merger-rumours-put-to-bed.html

[Jasongatties]

The Eagles have launched a new website. http://www.eaglesxv.com.

[Jasongatties]

sorry...

http://www.eaglesxv.com

I put a period at the end of it on my previous post.

[Rising Sun Rugby]

The red jerseys were an executive order.

[Flynn Hagerty]

I'm not seeing the problem with red jerseys. It's the traditional USA jersey.

[Theo]

Not a huge fan of the red jerseys, but they're bearable. I'd like to see more blue in the jersey.

As for Test, he red-shirted his freshman year with the Oregon football team, which is not uncommon. He then left the program to concentrate on rugby.

As for Loughborough, their website looks nice, but the info is pretty spotty. All of the match reports listed are for the team they field in National Division 2. A dig into their notice boards turned up weekly selections which Test has been named in the 1st XV for their BUCS1 squad for most of their games this season. The team is 8-0 in British Universities North Premier A League. No stats or match reports were available.

So, I guess it is technically legit to call him a former Oregon football player. Although it's not nearly the same as saying someone like Leonard Peters is a former Hawaii football player. There is a very good possibility that he is on scholarship at Loughborough though.

[hype police]

Test was a walk-on his freshman year and wasn't invited back his second year. He is a HS football player and Alex shouldn't refer to him as a "former Oregon football player" because its simple not true.

He is however a decent rugby player and deserves his place as an injury replacement. He is also young enough to be a true developmental player. Good selection in my view.

[crashtheline7]

Listened to Bruce and Djuro's interview with Todd Clever yesterday. Thoroughly enjoyed it, but one thing I would like to clarify to Bruce: You mentioned that people on this blog are digging a grave for the RSL based upon its recent reduction in size. I don't think the size issue has been the death nell of RSL. I have said and believe that it is the number of games played, the economic model, and the way it dilutes other competitions. I don't think it has anything to do with the size of the league and I'm not sure anyone has actually said that (could be wrong) If I heard the other posters correctly it the concern regarding teams dropping out has been with the quality teams going by the way side. You may sustain RSL for 5 or even 10 more years with private funding but unless something happens which allows the RSL to become a sponsored semi-pro comp it will eventually peeter out. Ed Hagerty says it way better than I on erugbynews.com but I think you get the point.

[bruce mclane]

i hear you, the thing is, think about what was really happening. belmont chose to leave, which likely meant that they were not willing to pay for the quality that they had in the past and that they were choosing to return to the bottom up approach that they had in the past with their academy and matt webber was no longer coaching.

santa monica too lost their coach.

remember that belmont was 1-5 or 1-6 before going to 7 straight finals. NYAC was 2-11 in 2 years before making the playoffs 6 times in a row and making 2 finals, chicago lions were 1-6 before hitting several final 4 appearances in a row.

i understand what people are saying, i am just saying not to worry, if you look at the level of play in the finals of the RSL over the past several years it is very good. there are generally 4-6 teams that are pretty equal in ability. ideally it would be more.

the thing is, USA rugby gives us no money, nor should they. (i actually had a friendly disagreement with a leading RSL coach over this very topic yesterday)

to me, USA rugby should focus exclusively on the elite game of men and women and 7's and leave everyone else alone.

by elite i don't mean these asinine comps NA4, ARC and other "piss money up a rope" comps, including this stupid city based comp of 4 teams that is being bandied about for summer and fall, it will be a tremendous failure and another waste of money.

they should do summer tours for HS and college all americans and make them great an special. they should focus on eagle play as well.

the rest of it is all nonsense and make work crap.

i think we should focus on what USA rugby can and should do with their money that
1 we give them
2 they get from the IRB as the USA piece of RWC action
3 sponsorships

i think we should focus on transparency at USA rugby.

the RSL is going to be a 13 year old comp that has played good games, provided good comp, it is not perfect, but it is not a welfare recipient.

the teams and people in the rugby community are largely volunteers with an irrational love for the game and what it represents. we need to support each other and stop bashing each other.

divide and conquer is a technique used to destroy. we need to hang together and ask real questions.

on thing to remember is that the RSL is just a tournament played by 14 teams over a 3 month period. it is not subsidized nor aided in any way by USA rugby. the only thing they do for us is to essentially leave us alone (although not always)

we need to question what is happening at the top, not whether some group of volunteers and benefactors of clubs should spend 10k per week to play in an empty stadium, if their was a market there for doing that, trust me we would.

[start over]

Here's the problems. The RSL can't remain of its current standard and be regarded as US rugby's top domestic competition.

The "there's no skin off your nose" argument because the competition doesn't receive USAR funding can't hide the fact some want it both ways.

They want to be a participant in a very average competition, with low standards and still call it the best we have.

This means that RSL has now strangely become part of the problem, not part of the answer.

Time to throw everything out the window, to include this bunch of foreign as#holes running the union, and create a new plan. Our plan needs to be based on five levels.

1-Youth, get kids playing early. 2- High School, become a real HS school sport. 3-College, become a real intercollegiate sport. 4-Club, build strong rugby clubs in our communities. 5- City-Based Semi-Pro, build a domestic league where our very best, non-school aged players complete AND IMPROVE!

The Eagles should fund themselves. They are a lux we can't afford if we are serious about getting good in this sport. BTW, how much did it cost us (the cipp members, the owners of this rugby union) to lose to NZ by the score of 56-0 in a 14 minute match yesterday?

We must afford some HS and college representative play. These players must graduate to the best clubs and the city-based semi-pro league.

RSL is caught between level number 4-5 and has been for its whole existence. Once again, its not enough to fund your own poor standards and call yourself the best.

Where Bruce is correct, is with all these money wasting competitions and high priced do-nothing salaries coming out of Boulder.

[Bruce McLane]

start over,

i respect what you say, but disagree. where are the money and facilities going to come from for a city based league? what about the jobs, apartments, insurance, etc.

the RSL is a good comp, the top notch foreigners who have played in it would agree with me.

i agree that HS and college all stars are good things, although they could be better.

i also don't think the standards at NYAC are poor and i don't think we run a poor organization there. we have a terrific field, a nice training facility, medical insurance, a first class workout facility, world class doctors, exceptionally talented players, we assist youth rugby at playrugbyusa, we coach xavier HS, as well as utah, iona college and Army. we provide opportunities and jobs for players. we helped consolidate college admission, tuition, and scholarship information for HS players, we help with age grade programs, we have the defense coach for the eagles, we provided a new board member who will actually make rain and put money towards something, our former coach owns the USA 7's and our former captain is the president of it. the former coach rescued the AA tour financially.

many other clubs do the same. i look at what belmont, ombac, old blues, aspen, life, chicago lions, old blue, sfgg, dallas, and others have done.

you can laugh and point fingers, but it is unfair

we would like to do more, and we are trying to do more but give us a break, to say our standards are a poor excuse is not a fair assessment.

NYAC does it on a budget of 100k.

[Best Ever]

Another best ever week, best ever training session, best ever team from Al C.

Then we give up a try every 90 sec from the opening whistle to the final whistle. Allowing roughly 4 points a minute without scoring a point, lets be glad in was a short match.

All this without the no Clever excuse, oh my!

[sorry]

Put away the needy crying towel.

All the clubs can read off similar list of accomplishments. Even without some of the stretches you included in the NYAC bio. A Utah alum who played football and rugby at his university, returns to coach his university team and he's a NYAC patron, because he flew in a season from his home in Utah to play for the NYAC?

Just because the NYAC is a fine institution comprised of good rugby men, this isn't a validation for the RSL being a well conceived part of US rugby and it's future.

The NYAC should be just what it is, a really good American rugby club. The NYAC should complete with a dozen clubs along the Eastern seaboard to send a rep to the US club championship. The same thing should be happening in three other regions, sound familiar?

Hey, we get that the teams from the RSL don't have the funds to invest in a competition of higher standards. This is the point. We can't stop here with our rugby standards just because the RSL teams have hit their ceiling.

A good rugby union, would stop wasting money like USAR is currently doing and design an 8 team, expanding to 12-16 team, city-based semi-pro league. It would be referred to as a professional rugby league, much the same way the RSL is Super. The league will require investor funding 30-50 times the annual NYAC budget, $3-5m. Peanuts to some, a ransom to others.

No, it won't happen tomorrow. We will be stuck with the no plan, no vision we have become accustom to from USAR for the foreseeable future.

Here's the real question. Does RSL fill a void between now and when the foreign boys depart and US rugby gets to work on a real plan? No.

Even though the league has many of our finest, most hard working members it doesn't fill any gap other than its own purpose. RSL does nothing to propel the game forward. Nothing commercially, media wise or technically. The playing standard is average, even for a tier two nation. RSL doesn't develop Eagles or get rugby into the sports pages.

We can both be proud of the teams and their club members and at the same time realize that everyday we think RSL is the answer the real answer gets further away.

[Swine & Spin]

Two things are for certain:

Elmer Fudd loves NYAC and thinks it is the best rugby club on the planet.

Caravelli is a political machine and even though the 7s team has been a complete failure the past two weeks he is still pumping out the spin.

[Bruce McLane]

sorry,

i would never cry, i stated facts. you say that someone is coming in with millions, dream on. it won't happen and when the IRB came in with millions look what we got. Blake lived and worked in NYC by the way and was a valuable NYAC member, i consider him a friend and valuable part of our club, if you are unhappy with that, so be it.

the RSL has 7 teams in the east coast that are playing one another and hopefully going to a national championship (is a dozen the magic number)

i would love to see how the 3-5 mill would be spent for a league understanding that if it is a business, the volunteer well dries up, so that money goes quick and does little. if you have a great idea, write a business plan and sell it.

you don't have to like the RSL, USA rugby didn't create it, the clubs did. if you have a better idea, get going on it and good luck with it, it would be great to see the game progress.

as for swine, sign your name, and i would venture to say, nyac is better than anything you have ever been involved with rugby wise by a longshot.

no one in the RSL is saying that someone can't do something better, go ahead.

the only thing we ask is that you don't tax players as clubs like usa rugby does to make it happen, build it on your own like the RSL did and if it is better, i will applaud it.

[anon]

SL is not USAR. Jeez. They are clubs who are doing what you keep preaching. Break out and try to make it better - not waiting for a handout from IRB, some huge sposor or USAR funding. They do it themselves.

How in the world can you bash it.

As far as quality no plan in the world could improve the quality of play. Seriously - think about it. The same players playing on any team with any colors in any comp would produce the same quality.

That is a dumb argument. Stop it already.

SL is TRYING to create a vehicle for people who want to sacrifice and play at a high level week in and week out.

Best thing done in rugby by far for the last 30 years.

So what if some temas leave and come back. You improve by CONSISTANT coaching and CONSISTANT competition. Good on them for reorganizing, refreshing and giving it another go. You don't subsidize it, you don't have to join it and you don't have to watch it so stop bashing it and create something, anything that supports your idea of progress.

And I'm tired of hearing about college players being the savior. Any given year you have a handfull of actual test level athletes in the AA program. I mean athletes in mental ability, physical ability, and will to prepare.

Athletes get paid to go to school in sports other than rugby. These are where 99.9% of top athletes are. That is a FACT. A couple of players come through with love for the game.

The last time you see top level athletes playing rugby is in high school. And most that we have don't play after their junior year because of college offers.

Keeping college all americans in the game is a stopgap measure.

Scholarships and the possibility of a pro contract will keep top tier athletes in rugby.

[Weekend Warriors]

RSL is a failure on two fronts.

1 - After over a decade of being in existence and having the benefit of starting on the dawn of rugby union became professional (1995) it is still self funded and played in poor facilities. That is a failure pure and simple. I am sure the 10 year plan for the RSL in 1996 (founding year) did not say that the league would be self funded and played at middle schools and community parks with top teams quiting.

2 - The quality of play is not that much more superior to that of some of the D1 teams in local competitions. I think a fair standard would be for the worst RSL team to be as strong as the top D1 team. That is not the case, so I think you can say the standard of play in RSL has not improved enough in the 12 years it has existed to declare it anything "Super".

Where it has succeeded is that it has brought a lot of enjoyment to recreation rugby players that participate. Is it an expensive alternative to playing recreational rugby in D1? Yes, but so what?

[anon]

Wrong.

In football who is best prepared for the NFL? the QB from the WAC who played good defenses 2 times a year plus a bowl game or a QB who played in the SEC playing better competiton week in and week out.

The goal is about consistant competiton. Why can you not understand this.

The best comparison is last place the worst team on PAC (or whoever) super league schedule vs the 5th best team on PAC's schedule if they were not in the competition.

Now there is too much distance between 1st and last.

And Facilities are a HUGE deal. That is the single biggest issue in rugby today. I think if there is 1 area where SL did fail that is it.

The people POSSIBLY may not come if it's in a 7,000 seat stadium but they will NEVER come if you play in a park somewhere. We need to stop thinking about whats best for players and start thinking about whats best for mom, dad and friends if we are serious about growing an audience.

All this stuff people talk about, sponsors, TV and such only comes with fan support. Rugby as a whole makes it pretty dificult with guys running around named ont he sidelines changing and peeing in the woods or a nasty port o potty.

[Bruce McLane]

WW,
RSL is not more expensive than D1.
no one said anything about it being a pro league and it hasn't been discussed as a pro league.

it is going to enter its 14th year, facilities are better (shows investment), we are solvent as a league (unlike other ventures that require welfare checks, NA4, ARC, etc).

who in D1 is so dominant that they should be in the RSL? and who is being kept out of the RSL that has won and wants in? and what RSL teams are no good?

if you make a claim, back it up. everyone knows that pro rugby is not financially viable and it wasn't viable a just after the RSL started when they were selling $25k shares in a pro league, none of the RSL teams were part of that, so i don't know where your info is coming from, but it is wrong. (yes, people were actually trying to put money into a pro league and it never came off, this was going on shortly after the RSL started)

i do agree, i would like to see things get better and if someone have a plan, run with it, i am sure that you could sell the detailed plan and backed with the credibility to get the money together to make it happen

if the RSL is such a failure, we would be easy to dominate and the rugby landscape in the USA would be your oyster.

good luck. i am hoping that an anonymous blogger can generate the plan to bring in the big bucks to make rugby a profitable professional venture.

[Weekend Warriors]

RSL = Best Recreational Rugby Competition in the USA.

-Self Financed
-Played in Public Parks or Schools
-No Substantial Sponsors or Broadcast Revenue
-No Contracted Players

If the 10 year plan for RSL upon its founding said that this would be the case, then it is a huge success. If the plan was to make it into something more semi-pro or pro, then the RSL was a failed experiment. Those are the facts Fudd.

[Bruce McLane]

Dallas and PAC play in a park, no one else does and dallas has stands in the park

we are financially solvent, say what you want, but we are.

make your own league, you have all the answers. i hope you become a millionaire in the process

i hope it works. sign your name as well if you want to take a potshot.

[Amateurs Throughout]

RSL has been a joke from day 1. Blow hard clubs that think they are better than the rest of the clubs in their area. Let them think they are super, but they know deep down inside they are just a bunch of amateurs like the rest of us playing rugby in the USA. Super...what a myth.

[Bill Tomkins]

Don't know if the RSL is considered a success or not, but the American National Rugby League (AMNRL) seems to be a much more success set-up than RSL. Maybe the RSL can learn from these guys.

[bruce mclane]

Bill,

Although I disagree, I get where you are coming from and understand why you may feel as you do and respect that you sign your name to your words.

Amateurs,
We are amateurs, we never claimed to be anything different.

[Bugs Bunny]

Give it up Fudd
RSL is a DUD!

[league smells]

The AMNRL is sure better at making it seem like they are better off. But they are shite. Oh look we got a partnership with a major league lacrosse team to play an opener for a pro lax game. cue ARN story about it. Oh but wait. It is a fundraiser the Philly team offers and markets towards High school and Grade school lacrosse teams! where they sell them at cost tickets and let them sell them to all their parents/friends and then they get to play for a couple minutes before the game. weee!!!

[Ruff]

RSL has ALPO as a sponsor. There are so many people that are walking their dogs at the park that stumble upon a RSL rugby match that ALPO jumped on the opportunity to market to this captive audience.

[tbear]

If you think the SL is amateur in its offerings and that the AMNRL is way ahead you have abviously not been to a majority of AMNRL games or facilities. Either way, does it really matter? Play at the level your content with and respect that some folks want to rise to their highest potential or lowest. Most SL haters come from teams that would get smoked in a head 2 head competition or have no clue about the standard of play because they are judging based on they witnessed some 3rd string off season "SL" team at a tourney and decided they are as good as a SL team.

[wtf]

Not good enough Al C. another 1-4 expensive romp. Losing to a bad Russia team AGAIN, this time 24-5.

The total control you enjoy comes with total responsibility. Your performances are heading in the wrong direction.

Good luck in Wellington.

[Circus 7s]

Al CLOWNavelli is a joke! The 7s team sucks. When the rest of the world is gearing up for the 2016 Olympics by contracting players and establishing pathways and national 7s competitions, the USA is sucking their thumb on the IRb 7s Series. Time for a change and get some pros running the show....Al must go!

[yeah of little faith]

Circus - your the joke. The Eagles have had a gruelling two rounds and while they have not performed to their best, particularly in the second day of competition there is no question that they have been very close.

In day 1 competition they have lost two games heavily and four games by a try or less.

In day two competiton they are .500

They are missing their best player in Kevin Swyrin and have been largely without their playmaker.

It's a relatively new and young team that has to learn on the fly.

I doubt that Al is particularly happy about the results of the last couple weeks; particurly the bowl semi final loss to Russia (who look to be a pretty good team). That said the team gets an opportunity to work on their game in Fiji and perhaps a little more favorable Day 1 schedule will allow the Eagles a bit of a break.

Judge the team at the end of the season and not after the first two tournaments.

[Old Boy]

hey that Eagles XV website looks sharp. Best media product I've seen coming out of the USRFU pipeline in a while. Or was it a private-sector initiative? (my money is on the latter)

[Guill]

Mr McLane lives of the success of others. His NYAC has been carried by Australians since 2005, Mayo, Cronin, Mara, Milton and Power all Australian and have held the key to NYAC's seasons. He lives off the coaching of Mike Tolkin and hangs around great coaches like a lost puppy and claims to be their close friends, I feel sorry for the players who deal with him. Truth be told his own players learn nothing from him and claiming NYAC looks after their players is a joke, they have not got a player a decenmt job in years that is why they come to us asking for work. He has a big mouth and an over inflated opinion of himself, dont buy into his nonsense or associate yourself with anything he does. Ce sont les tonneaux vides qui font le plus de bruit.

[Bend Over Fudd]

Fudd gets TORCHED by a Frog!

SWEET!

It is common knowledge that NYAC is full of s#!t when it comes to how well they are set-up and that it is only the imports that keep them successful.

[bruce mclane]

Good show with Lou Stanfill and Mike Tolkin on www.ruggamatrixusa.com

[He's not all bad]

Its his non-stop big mouth, full of careless opinions and name dropping references which gets old.

Sure his heart is in the right place, but Bruce is a dud. He can't coach a lick, most of the ACs own players just look at him like a cartoon. The Elmer Fudd reference is too good.

The one big thing that he's done is stick it to USAr. When old Bruce is in good form storming the Boulder palace I find him highly entertaining. Once he starts trying to talk about rugby I put cotton in my ears.

[james hayter]

I have to disagree with your comments regarding Bruce. I played pro rugby for 12 years in Europe (coventry, harlequins and scarlets) and then finished my career playing with NYAC in 2008. Bruce was one of the best coaches I had the pleasure of working with in all that time. His technical ability is excellent and his preparation and analysis is second to none. More than that any attempt to say that Bruce is held in any other than the very highest regard by his players is completely false and I believe reflects very badly on those making the comments. As a coach and more importantly as a person he is very well respected by all of those that really know him and I am proud to call him a friend. I know this applies to many current and former players also.

I haven’t ever responded to any of these blogs before but I have felt obliged to try and put the record straight here as your comments are not only misinformed but also constitute an attack on a great guys character.

James Hayter

[rt]

Nobody goes out of their way to take shots at Bruce. He wants to be the media guy, with the loud opinions, telling everybody how it is. Well that's what comes with being the Rush Limbaugh of rugby. People say f#ck off chubby, You're not that good.

James, thanks for your introduction, you must have had some piss poor coaches!

[Fudd You!]

Bruce loves to be the loudmouth and do his NYC shtick for the rugby world. He has been on the ruggamatrix podcast (before the USA version - look for it on iTunes) a number of times acting the fool and personifying the NYC stereotype. He is a media whore, which supersedes any coaching ability he has to offer. So what? My guess is that he thinks he should be the Eagle coach and is of the mind that being a media whore helps his cause.

[sorry Mark]

USAR staff member and the owner of Play Rugby, which also makes USAR a client, Mark Griffin says, YCOG was a success!!!

The truth. Just under 60 attendees...including about 10 staff. This means 50 attendees, representing only about 20 teams.

This is not a success, its a failure.

[Blake Burdette]

I have to agree with James. Bruce is a good coach and a good person. I have and will continue to seek advice from him as I coach the University of Utah.

Want to set something else straight. I did play for NYAC for two seasons. I lived and worked in the city. A first class organization all the way, with first class guys, including Bruce and Tolks.

[Straight shooter]

Guys, Bruce is a straight shooter - end of story, do I agree with everything he says, no and at times far from it, do I think he speaks without thinking at time, yes, but does he ever, ever back away from a question or pull punches, no. Now you have the privaledge of doing so in the media, relationships are not necessarily something you have to worry to much about on the political, bureaucratic and other levels, so you can "say it how it is." Takes guts at times, takes ego, takes passion, takes a ton of things, not all of which are endearing to every one of you - top that off with the NY attitude and you rub people the wrong way at times.

Here is where we have to get serious though - the RSL teams have not spent any energy building their competition. They are paying and playing the same rugby that they did 15 years ago. Players, coaches, and time have come and gone, but the standards have not really improved.

It does not matter what Div 1 is or College is today, that crowds and pollutes the conversation - don't let it get in the way of what RSL or a top league should be or does, or could do!

Do I believe that are integrated and college rugby is a huge part of our growth in both playing numbers and ultimately the elite game, yes, but I will not get caught up in the same arguement many of you are.

So, where does the RSL "suck" as many folks point out on this board - and do so by getting the rath of Bruce - it sucks because it is standing still. As the top competition in American self imposed or imposed on it by others, it is flat. There is no way around that - however and here is the main thing I have issue with Bruce on, the RSL does not feel it should do anything about it. The RSL and the top Colleges are the two potentially brightest parts of our game - the oldest and most respected programs.

Why do they meet once a year, talk around subjects, and not call out the past and current administration. Sure Bruce is doing it on his own, but the RSL is not. Bruce you are isolated - the other clubs don't care or you as an entity cannot band together. Is that what it has come down to - organizations that the USAR managment don't have to listen to because they know you act individually?

My challenge to Bruce and the RSL is to meet next month and mandate to USA Rugby - by agreeing to certain things regarding HP dollars coming to them and then having their TU/LAU guys go vote on it in June will they win. HP dollars are not just IRB, they are what is given back to each constituency that gives CIPP dollars.

Go get it Bruce, organize your troops and demand action, plan, and improvement!

[bruce mclane]

straight,

I hear you, i actually would like to see self-financed gains by the RSL. i do not think that the RSL should suck the tit of USA Rugby, i would much rather the money go into the grass roots of the game or some stipends for dedicated domestic players, or medical insurance.

i personally wish that more CIPP money went back into the game at the youth, school, and university level.

i know that there are many who disagree with me, many prominent RSL people vehemently disagree with me, but i feel that if we were given HP money that we would not use it wisely and we would just be a subsidized version of what we are now.

there has to be something better to do with that money. AA program that is excellent in HS and college is a start, medical insurance for players works for me, training stipends works for me.

again, this is not a popular opinion in the RSL, essentially invest the money to try and ID and develop players to play professionally overseas by the time they are 23 or 24, get them opportunities, they may need to play RSL for a year or 2 before they get a shot, but lets focus on that. the RSL will be fine with the players who love the game but are not good enough for pro contracts.

giving money to the RSL clubs is just further pissing money up a rope in my book.

i am not saying usa rugby shouldn't support us in non financial ways, but money is not our biggest problem in our league, at least not in my opinion and if we get money, what will we do when the well eventually dries up.

[Keep It Simple Stupid]

RSL should just integrate back into D1 and then work with USA Rugby to build some D1 regional leagues that make sense. A West Coast men's league would be as good as the current RSL without all the travel and you could build a fan base around it.

OMBAC
Belmont Shore
LA Rugby
Santa Monica
Las Vegas
Olympic Club
Golden Gate
Old Puget Sound
Provo Steelers
????

Do the same on the East Coast and Mid-America and then you have nearly 30 D1 teams in a regional competition. Create an all-star team from these teams and there is the majority of your domestic player pool for Eagle selection. Let's keep it simple and get off our high horse about a Super League. There is nothing super about rugby in the USA at this point.

[Rugby Mom]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/sports/16rugby.html?scp=1&sq=Life%20University&st=cse

[not a hater]

Anytime rugby gets in the NY Times for something positive, its a good day. The story must make Life blush a little, 'from construction worker and house painter to DOCTOR', well kind of a doctor.

It reads like if you are ever down and out and don't know what to do with your life, you can becomes a "doctor" of chiro.

[Rugby Loses]

This article makes rugby sound even more fringe than it already is in the USA. Why do a profile on an obscure collegiate rugby anomaly when the majority of the people with kids that are possibly looking at prospective colleges are looking at mainstream colleges? It would have been nice if they did a profile on a good traditional collegiate (undergrad, competes against other colleges, full academic program, etc) rugby program. Something like Cal, Kutztown, St Mary's, Penn State, etc. F A I L - again.

[Call me Doctor]

I'm not from America. I had nothing going at home so I moved to the US.

Without a legal work permit I could only work in under-the-table positions. I've been a bartender, waiter, gardener, fitness trainer and general laborer of all kinds.

We play rugby at home and I wasn't too bad. First side player for my school and club. I wasn't good enough for rep ball, but a solid player.

I've tried to get married a few times to stay legally in America, but it seems most of the good looking girls want a guy who owns a car and rich guy stuff like that. In truth, I don't have a pot to piss in. Whatever dough I've left after a weeks work is spent at the pub.

I started playing some local rugby and although not great at home, I'm fu#cking super here in the US. I met this one guy who all the guys on the team call doc and he's been really cool to me. He says, I can be a doctor too, if I was willing to play for this great uni in Atlanta. All the people back home can't believe it. They said I would need to have been good at science and stuff like that, and I told them not in the US. I told them my friend really isn't that smart and he's a doctor.

Well there you have it. That's my story and now they call me doctor.

Life has changed my life in more ways than you'll ever know.

[An apple a day...]

I have no idea if that post from Call Me Doctor is true or a joke. And I guess that pretty much says it all.

[Skinner]

Call me a Doctor - LMAO!!

Funny coz I know a few that did exactly that, including one Kiwi cop that is now back in NZ as a Doctor.

Well played.

[Joke U v Cult U]

Just as college rugby is about to take off in a mainstream way, it is very possible that the national championship in men's collegiate rugby could be between Life College and BYU. A joke university against a bunch of 25 year old Pacific Islanders.

[humm]

Not so fast. Life hasn't won anything, even with all those foreign players. BYU has one title in their history. Maybe we shouldn't be worried just yet.

The USAR eligibility rules which favor BYU and their LDS faith over all the other universities and religions aside, BYU is a strong college name.

The same can't be said of Life, a very suspect trade-school-like college brand, but I'm not sure if they get put under the undergrad 5 year eligibility check they even beat the local teams in the South.

Time will tell how many colleges will step up. At this point its only a few. More teams need to be able to beat a team like BYU, with their older, foreign players. Cal Poly, Utah, Cal, Colorado have done it in recent years, now its time for a few others to step up. Maybe Army, Navy, St Marys, San Diego State?

[Navy is done]

everyone always names Navy. Navy blooows. theyre done. They wont go anywhere till Flanagan leaves or Flanagan learns how to coach rugby in the 21st century. You cant win marfus let alone get to nationals by picking and jamming only. He tells his flyhalf he isnt allowed to kick. Navy is not elite. Stop naming them among the best.

[can't hide the decline]

I thought the pick and jam (aka fudge pack/the inchworm/the frisco crisco/reach around clown/boo foo choo choo) became extinct in 2005, with the polar bear?

I too, have seen that unimaginative style extensively used by two historically good teams. It wasn't their best stuff.

I'm sure Navy will abandon that ship soon, or just maybe it suits their style?

[tall poppy]

You guys must be talking about the test and professional teams which p&j more ball than most.

As for Navy, who are the college teams with 10 final four appearances? Short list I would think.

It seems if people talk shit about you, you are most likely kicking their ass and all that is left to the defeated is an anon message board.

Please talk about my team next, it will mean we are kicking some ass.

[rags]

appears USAR has been looking into a high profile 7s coach to lead us to the olympics

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/sevens/3179266/China-and-USA-fight-for-Tietjens-sevens-services

[navy pick and jam]

navy's athleticism beats most teams. but when you run up against the elite, endless pick and jams and a backline that wouldnt know how to spell dynamic isnt going to cut it anymore.

[What's your problem?]

Maybe when Cal's rugby program starts up for the spring, Oeler will be able to stand beside Clark and listen the rugby insight, then have something real to report on his blog site. Until then, he's awol. Maybe these days the ARN College talk's enough for Jack. and he doesn't need KO.

Until then, it's every man for himself.

I said man Giles, norcal and the pelicans don't count. that goes you you too Coppenger.

I came, I saw, I got bent over and.... you know the rest.

[King Cal]

Why would Jack chime in on this debate? He has a massive endowment to live off of, total support from the Cal Athletic Department, a recruiting gold mine in Nor Cal HS & youth rugby, a camp that makes him nice money in the summer and competition that is struggling to keep up. I don't agree with his "let them eat cake" position, but he is in no hurry for there to be some huge change in college rugby. Don't let his lip service on ARN fool you. His actions speak volumes.