Contrast in Uruguay, US lineups

Nine of tomorrow's Uruguay starters figured in last November's 43-9 win over the Teros, suggesting the Eagles should capture the home-and-away World Cup qualifying series.

There are many problems with such a linear inference, the most notable being that the Eagles were losing the Salt Lake City contest 9-7 at halftime.

But acknowledging for the moment the weight of America's 9-1 historical edge, it's interesting to compare the two teams' forward trajectory.

Considered a 'Tier 3' country, Uruguay has not received nearly so much IRB cash as the United States, and only three of its players compete in Europe. Some 13 American players are (or have) spent ample time overseas.

Both are now regularly playing June and November internationals. This summer at the Nations Cup in Bucharest, the Teros fell to Romania (17-11), Scotland A (27-3), and Russia (29-26). Meanwhile, the US posted 2-5 mark against de facto 'A' sides from Ireland, Wales, England, and Argentina, plus Georgia and Canada (twice). Six games during the two-month assembly were played at home.

Both have first-year head coaches, with Felipe Puig having replaced Guillermo Garcia and Eddie O'Sullivan taking over for Scott Johnson.

Uruguay has been aggressively promoting young players. The average age of tomorrow's 22-man squad is  25, with 7 players 23 or less. Save for 35-year-old prop Rodrigo Sanchez and 28-year-old lock Alejo Corral, all of the forwards were born in 1984 or later. (Note: I couldn't immediately locate age information for 1 Uruguayan and 2 Americans.)

The youngest Eagles are 24 (presuming Phil Thiel and Jacob Sprague are older). Two years away from the world championship, and already the American squad's average age is approaching 27.

This demographic difference speaks more to one's vision, circa 2007, than here-and-now selections. It is hard enough to rewrite the test gameplan, let alone with the World Cup on the line.

United States v Uruguay
United States: Chris Wyles (Saracens); Takudzwa Ngwenya (Biarritz), Paul Emerick (Parma), Junior Sifa (Midleton), Kevin Swiryn (Old Puget Sound Beach); Mike Hercus (Gold Coast Stingrays), Tim Usasz (Nottingham); Mate Moeakiola (Pearl City), Phil Thiel (Life), Will Johnson (Oxford Univ.), John van der Giessen (Albigeois), Hayden Smith (Saracens), Louis Stanfill (New York AC), Todd Clever (captain, Golden Lions), Nic Johnson (Denver Barbarians)

Reserves: Brian McClenahan (Olympic Club), Jacob Sprague (Mystic River), Alec Parker (Gentlemen of Aspen), JJ Gagiano (Roma); Mike Petri (New York AC), Valenese Malifa (Belmont Shore), Alipate Tuilevuka (Provo Steelers)

Uruguay: Nicolás Morales (Trébol); Manuel Martinez (Old Christians), Juan Campomar (Old Boys), Nicolás Brignioni (Oyonnax), Rodrigo Capo (captain, Castres); Alfredo Giuria (Los Cuervos), Juan Alzueta (Trébol); Rodrigo Sanchez (Carrasco Polo), Martín Espiga (Old Christians), Carlos Arboleya (Trébol), Alejo Corral (SIC), Juan Rombys (Trébol), Mario Sagario (Dax), Matías Fonseca (Los Cuervos), Carlos Protasi (Carrasco Polo)
 
Reserves: Juan Llovet (Old Christians); Leandro Leiva (Old Christians), Alejandro Silveira (Los Cuervos), Tomás Jolivet (Old Boys); Joaquín Pastore (Old Boys), Martín Crosa (Old Boys), Jerónimo Etcheverry (Carrasco Polo)

Comments

[jake]

The negative man surfaces yet once again.

[Rugger64]

Kurt - no thoughts on the new Collegiate coaching association? Or just don't think it's worth writing about?

[Breaking News]

Does USA Rugby have a new sponsor? World Rugby Shop is selling adidas shorts with this description:
"Our USA Eagle's will hit the field in November wearing their newest adidas garb. USA Rugby team logo fully embroidered on right leg with large adidas logo embroidered on left leg."
Here's the link.
http://tinyurl.com/ybhze3c

Odd that WRS would be breaking this news.

[Thomas Paine]

Yeah, Adidas? wow...well I guess Under Armour would have been too perfect of a fit, and would have made rugby grow too much. Oh well...

[Team California]

I saw take the state of California and seal it off from the rest of the country rugby-wise. Have a state competition for colleges and men and then build a national team from that pool. The competitions would be better than anything we have now in the total USA, the players would come out more skilled and you would be able to centralize the coaching and refereeing to develop a style of play that is embraced and taught by all, which should be running rugby and not 10 man smash mouth rugby the rest of the country can only seem to master, and we would be on the way.

[PP]

Kurt isn't negative he's the only one sane.

USAr didn't originate another sponsorship agreement, WRS is just helping out the cash strapped vision-less USAr.

The new college org is dead. Mixing genders and divisions under Griffin, Podhial (spl), and McNamara is unappealing to most all college coaches. It turns out some of the coaches on their "list" only signed up as individuals for a coaches association, not their teams for a new organization.

Screw team cali, USA, USA, USA.

[T. Hitchkens]

PP = Piss Poor

That is unless you back up these sweeping statements to be facts with evidence. Since you do not use your name, I am going to assume you are in your mom's basement being a troll.

[on topic]

Since the subject of the post was about the US - Uruguay match it should at least be commented on briefly - the Eagles won 27 - 22 with Swiryn dotting down twice and Usaz once.

BTW - Adidas may only be kitting the Eagles for this series of matches. I believe the short term goal was to get the Eagles into kit for the RWC qualifiers. Perhaps a long term deal will bring in the likes of UA - which would indeed be cool. And may explain why no announcement by USA Rugby.

Back to the bitching ...

[TCGfolife]

Wow USA Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuux!

[TCGfolife]

BTW Kurt why is age such a big thing wasn't England 07 squad mostly in their 30's...its all about picking the best AMERICAN players not young sorry players or eagles who were born and raised in New Zealand...with that being said TCG 4 Life!

[Eagle Fan]

That match was a little too close for comfort, this will give Uruguay some belief.

Interesting next week for sure.

[one more win]

Uruguay has not always been an easy place for the Eagles. A short assembly and too little time together in Uruguay certainly did not help.

It's a win, though, and the Eagles did put over a number of tries (four or five?) while only conceding one.

A larger cushion would indeed be nice but playing at home and an additional weeks preparation should help.

AS much as folks get down on the Eagles it is worth noting that of the "winnable" matches the Eagles have played this year the Eagles are 3 - 1.

One more win and the Eagles are in the WC and arguably in a better pool then are the Canadians.

[Mr Obvious]

A win is a win, now to string back to back victories!!

[Beagles]

USA Eagles = Yawn...

Who cares? College rugby on the west coast is getting into gear, and that is where the action is for me. Eagles costs our union a couple million dollars a year by casual estimates, and delivers little in the way of enjoyment for the 80K rugby players in the USA. Their matches are not on TV, they are not that good and nobody cares from what I can tell. Everyone is interest in college and HS rugby in my opinion, and it is poorly funded. Hope the Eagles don't make it to the 2011 WC because only a few care in my opinion.

[Petri Dish]

Eagles point differential margin with Uruguay sunk by a yellow card by Mike "Tiny Dancer" Petri getting a yellow card where Uruguay scored fourth penalty and a converted try while Mike "Eagle Poser" Petri was sent to the sin-bin by Argentinean referee Javier Mancuso. Why does anyone in the Eagle coaching camp give this clown a look? This guy is a bust...cut him.

[Rugby Fan]

Beagle, If we didn't have major league baseball do you think that Little League would be popular. Nearly every little kid playing baseball dreams of becoming a pro ball player. Same holds true for all sports. Ask any college player if he would like to be an Eagle and the answer would be a resounding YES. You are a disgraceful person to wish ill on our national team. Channel your energy in making rugby in America rather than tearing it down.

[viva la american rugby]

I agree with Beagle for the most part. Let them fund themselves. Find sponsors or pay your own way. Put most of the hs and college dues back into those areas. Rugby Fan, you make a logical argument but it just isnt true. The high school and college players are eh on the eagles. They are all much more concerned with winning their leagues or a national championship. Would they like to play for the Eagles? Sure. I am sure they think that would be pretty cool. But their feelings toward it are not enough to justify hamstringing the entire union to fund a poor product. Not to mention the product is poor BECAUSE high school and collee rugby has been ignored. Cal supplies a lot of Eagles. Imagine if we had 10 Cal level collegiate programs? Jesuit and Highland provide a lot of the top collegiate players. Imagine if we had 100 top quality high school programs? THEN the Eagles would be something to aspire to, because they wouldnt be struggling to beat Uruguay. Instead they would be smashing Ireland and devastating Japan and ruining Argentina. But lets keep chasing meaningless test match wins right now shall we? Oooh maybe we can move up to 15th in the world rankings. All of the expats and international die-hards will be so pleased..

[Rugby Fan]

How can you say that qualifing for the World Cup a meaningless test match? That's plain ignorant

[Common sense uber alles]

Quantity doesn't substitute for quality. It's been a long time since even Cal produced anything close to a world-class player. Just saying we need more high school rugby teams doesn't mean that's the game plan to beat a country that is actually good at rugby.

Japan have more rugby players than anywhere in the world except England and suck. Uruguay has something like a dozen clubs and can go within five of the USA at home. Wales has won four out of their last six versus England despite having an eighth of the rugby players England has.

What we need to grow is the number of coaches who know their ass from their elbow and raise standards across the board.

[College Fan]

Leave Cal out of these stupid rants.

The truth is more people care about college rugby than do the Eagles- Army v Navy, Dartmouth v Harvard, BYU v Utah and on and on. The Eagles do cost too much money for the ROI. But none of this has anything to do with any one college.

The Eagles beating Uruguay is important. At what cost of the question.

[SoCal]

Speaking of college rugby didn't St Mary's beat Santa Monica?

[Godzilla]

Japan sucks? Those are some bold words from someone supporting the USA Eagles. Japan tore Canada a new one this weekend. I have been to Japan and experienced the rugby. They have dedicated rugby stadiums and a pro league. And by stadiums I mean multiple rugby purpose 30K+ seat stadiums and not a park with seating in Glendale CO. At these stadiums on non-game Saturdays you will find 100 plus kids in kits with 20 coaches working a rugby training program issued by the Japanese Rugby Union. They have sponsor and broadcast revenue and actually make money on their home tests because they get 40K people to attend. You should STFU when you don't know what you are talking about.

[king kong]

Japan sucks

[John McNamara]

Mission Statement

The mission of the United States Collegiate Rugby Association (USCRA) is to provide independent, unified, professional and responsive leadership to our membership inspiring participation, promoting the sport as an integral part of the collegiate educational experience and presenting collegiate rugby as a viable NCAA Varsity sport.

Vision

We envision a future in which collegiate athletes, coaches, institutions and surrounding communities embrace the sport of rugby in a lifelong relationship that is founded on the values inherent in the game itself; values shared, promoted and celebrated throughout the International rugby community

Values

We are committed to the following values as fundamental to our mission and vision:
• We are custodians of the game and the principles laid out in the IRB Playing Charter
• We support the collegiate model of athletics in which students participate as an avocation, balancing their academic, social and athletics experiences.
• We demand the highest levels of integrity and sportsmanship from our athletes and participants at all levels
• We promote the pursuit of excellence in both academics and athletics.
• We support the role that intercollegiate athletics plays in the mission of higher education, the enrichment of individuals and communities.
• We provide an inclusive culture that fosters non discriminatory and equitable participation opportunities for student-athletes and career opportunities for coaches and administrators from diverse backgrounds.
• We respect institutional autonomy and philosophical differences.

[?]

ok... got something to say about it?

[questions about the USCRA]

The teams haven't signed up for the USCRA. No new additions!!! At what point does the USCRA become a "paper tiger"?

Nice touch with the addition of "inclusiveness" in the value section. Maybe a few more politically correct terms might sway the non-believers. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan, kind of, but we will need to see the goods pretty soon or risk the notion that this is the Richey and Griff not-for-prime-time show.

How big is St Mary's College victory? 30 points over Santa Monica, is a statement.

College rugby is USAR's best level.

[Alan]

So wait, if someone supports a team that isn't any good, he can't say anything bad about a team that's less bad? In what world is that logical?

When has Japan ever beaten anyone who is any good? Maybe a 2nd string Scotland team in 1990. The fact that they've got quite a good rugby scene (as the original poster alluded to) doesn't figure into an evaluation of the national team.

Japan sucks. No one is arguing that they suck more than us.

[its the admin stupid]

What has been great about Japan, is their administration over the last three years.

Both the US and Japan were to receive new seven figure grants from the IRB and both unions needed to get their house in order. In this task they (Japan) crushed the US.

They made a plan for Japan and we made a plan for the commonwealth. Just guess who's national national team is making strides?

Canada was in a similar situation and they beat us for the RWC spot as well. Head to head against our peers the US is getting their ass handed to them for a union leadership standpoint.

National team results will always follow this fact.

[Astro Boy]

If Japan sucks, I would like the USA to suck too. I would like to have the following in the USA:

Annual IRB tournament participation (Pacific Nations Cup) for the national team

Professional league with 14 Teams that are fully sponsored by corporation where 2 matches per round are broadcast on J-sports (ESPN of Japan)

All-Japan Rugby Football Championship, which is a year end competition that includes the pro teams, the top two universities and the champion club team as decided in their respective championships. Televised and in front of big crowds.

Chichibunomiya Rugby Stadium in the middle of Tokyo that is the home of rugby and holds 25K people.

Host a Bledisloe Cup match.

Host the 2019 World Cup.

Kick some Canuk A$$ by a score of 46-8, which happen this past weekend.

I am sure I can think of a few other things that suck in Japan, but I think this is enough to prove that when it comes to rugby Japan sucks.

[John McNamara]

The USCRA is an opportunity for college coaches from every division to join together and change college rugby.
By orgnaizing independant of USA Rugby we can finally begin to hold the National Office, Congress and Board accountable to the college membership for the qulaity of service that they provide.
I invite every Gainline reader who is a college coach to join us in support of the USCRA.
For more information feel free to contact me. John@allamericanrugby.com

[John McNamara]

Look for a USCRA FAQ on Rugbymag.com earky this week and a USCRA survey of college coaches launching later in the week.

[viva la american rugby]

love it john. but lets read over posts before pressing submit. the initial release on rugbymag was riddled with mistakes as well. need to be getting off on the best foot as possible. a quick reading of all things being released will eradicate most mistakes. go USCRA

[Anon]

Any measurables John? Performance standards for you or them?

Any steps or initiatives to advance/imrpove college rugby?

I haven't seen or heard any actual plans from USAR or UCRA.

Just a lot of hot buttons wors and sales pitches.

College rugby doesn't need to be sold anymore. We need action.

[Nothing here to see, please move along.]

Socal,
A top Collegiate team beating a top D1 is nothing new, at least in my area. It shows the improvement of Collegiate programs. The fact of the matter is, 95% of club rugby offers little to an elite or sub-elite athlete.

Most graduates find this out pretty quick and opt to move on to other things rather than strap it up with some skate park rejects.

[TCGfolife]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeahhhh Budddddy!

Lightweiiiiiiiight!

[none of you could do better]

What a pathetic piece of self promotion there McNamara. Just like the blowhards you all are... your little Mission Statement is all talk but nothing concrete. At least Melville has a plan to hire people and get something done.
The USCRA is a failure from the get go.

[Give Us Beer Money, We're in COLLEGE!]

USA Rugby has announced a number of plans that I can recall. There was the women's varsity "plan" that had an employee for a short time and then nothing. Dan Payne was hired as a competitions director to sort out the HS, collegiate, club, womens, etc tourneys, and left soon after. The only plan they have is to find out how to win some test matches for the Eagles, and everything else is lip service to keep the CIPP cash rolling in. This new coaches association may become something worthwhile, but you can bet your hat that the USA Rugby plan for college rugby is to buy time so they can continue getting the college kids' CIPP fees. The only thing I would consider progress at this point is for USA Rugby to say, "We collect X.X million dollars from college CIPP fees and we are going to put 50% directly back into college rugby by subsidizing national tournament costs, establishing 6 coaching clinics across the country with our national team coaches that is free for college coaches, and we are going to not locate the nationals matches at balloon parks or soccer parks any more as they will only be held on college campuses with proper fields." Then I will believe the thieves in Boulder.

[College Rugby]

the guys crapping on mcnamara HAS to be from boulder orr just a guy that hates mcnamara. um news flash. rome wasnt built in a day. the uscra is building its membership. no real moves are going to be made until next season at the earliest. so they have PLENTY of time to get organized and make plans. you expect an organization to just spring out of nowhere and have "measurables"?? what a joke. think of it as the big bang. the matter has been released. now things need to coalesce into concrete plans. go away troll college rugby is going to do this thing right.

ALL COLLEGES CONTACT THE USCRA AND GET IN ON IT

[Chris Hopps]

College Rugby - "you expect an organization to just spring out of nowhere and have "measurables"??" Yes actually... Why wouldn't you? Is there any situation in the world where this is not standard practice? What is the purpose of springing up an org if they aren't tasked with doing anything.

Are you kidding me? Quality of work is subjective if there is nothing to measure by. If there are no tangible goals then any little improvement is success.

Subsidizing Natioanl Tournament teams is not something that many D2 or D3 teams would want to be a part of. There are around 500 mens college teams in the USA. We are talking about blowing a huge chunk of the budget on around 6% of the membership.

I coached college for 8 years. Areas for improvement are simple.

Credibility: Anything thak makes a school admin laugh at rugby is bad. Matching uniforms, good behavior, a well run event.

Spectator sport: Fans bring sponsors, booster clubs, event revenue. For this we need to stop thinking of rugby as a players sport. We need stands, the national anthem, programs, vendors etc. What we have now is time and venue changes, players changing on the field, maybe a port-o-john, maybe field ropes, c-side rookies touch judging. Rugby has to be the worst spectator sport in America.

If we don't get these right we will be spinning our wheels in the same mud we've been stuck in since the 80's.

So far I've heard almost the same rhetoric from the UCRA as USAR.

"To represent and imporve college rugby in the USA. Trust us. We are not USAR and they are doing a bad job."

Neither USAR or UCRA has stated ONE specific goal or metric. If the mantra is "We can't do any worse than the status quo" there may be trouble getting traction.

I do hear people getting self righteous and defensive if anyone questions it.

I'm not sabatoging I just want an answer or a reason why the question doesn't matter. I don't need to hear anymore sales pitches. This is starting to sound like americore.

[College Rugby]

Chris, my point was and is that this is still very preliminary. The only reason they've announced it is because there is no other way to reach all of the other college coaches in this country. They are still seeing who wants to be even involved. How can they come up with an actual plan when they don't even know if they will have the support of the entire college community. Now THAT would be the silly thing. Having "measurables" without anyone backing it. Like I said, no change is even possible till next year so they will take their time. So pointless criticisms based on impatience isnt really going to help anything. Things need to happen in steps and not all at once.

[Little more journalism please]

Kurt criticizes USA selections partly based on age and compares them to Uruguay's with this:

"The average age of tomorrow's [Uruguayan] 22-man squad is 25"

"[t]he American squad's average age is approaching 27."

Uh...Avg age 25 vs 26? That's a reason Uruguay has a better program?

[age is important]

Little sensitive aren't you.

The only thing worse than being in the bottom of the rankings, is being in the bottom of the ranking with the oldest team. Its a fair point Kurt makes.

He could have pointed out we have lots more money and sponsorship potential than the third world country and that Melville and co are screwing the pooch.

Or than they only have less than 10% of our playing base.

Add this to the IRB funding we get in comparison to Uruguay and the real story is told.

The Eagles should have the youngest team in the world and try to develop a team for the future. Why is this such a bad concept? Its not like the current plan has provided any results or potential.

[Tj]

Calling Uruguay third world is ignorant and automatically makes your post moot. You obviously either have never been to Uruguay or think the first world is only USA and Western Europe.

[USCRA Question]

Doc Jones cuts to the chase about the USCRA on the ARN pod cast. He explains why they are having trouble signing up college teams.

One thing is clear, the USCRA authors are pitting those who have signed up against those who haven't. Doc said he's been cut out of the information flow. This is really stupid of the USCRA! They are going to find out the hard way that the leaders of this effort aren't the type of coaches people want to follow and their decision to create a divide is failing.

This effort needs new front men. Looking at the list of coaches in support of the USCRA, they will need someone else to come forward from the group. Steinberg just wants to be the womens Olympic coach. Giffin the same. Doc said some of this was about money, jobs maybe! I wonder who he was speaking about?

Rich Polihal is a big no. David Symth might be a good leader, but will people follow the BYU example? Tim O'Brien is a possibility as spokesman. Ferrel hasn't been very successful, nor does he have a following. Battle doesn't have any program success. Dave Sitton is a well respected coach, with media connections, he's a possibility.

Without a new voice making the case the USCRA has no chance. The plan to wait for a Feb meeting is a HUGH mistake. At this rate the USCRA will be an after though by Feb. A noisy meeting of about 40 coaches representing 20 teams, half of those small college teams, is what the LV meeting is starting to look like.

BTW, any truth to the story that Bill Tatham is going to fund the USCRA takeover of college rugby from USAR?

How's this for a good screwing. First Melville gives the guy the commercial rights to domestic sevens, then the guy turns around and funds the takeover of college rugby from USAR. Priceless!

[whats in a number]

Tj,

Sorry to offend you, you must be from Uruguay. Its at least 2 1/2. The place is racked in debt, hates America because they think we are the World Bank.

If not for rich Argies heading to their inexpensive beach houses on holidays the entire country would have folded.

Recessions aren't supposed to last 20 years. Third world, 2 and a half, whatever. They do better than Melville USAr is doing.

[Caliano]

Uruguay is distinguished by its high literacy rate (97.3%) and a large urban middle class. There is poverty in rural communities, which is on par with most western industrialized countries. Trade with its neighbors is the driver of the economy in a country with a population of 3.3M. It is far from a 3rd world country. I would rate it as a small 1st world country on par with say Portugal or Greece. And after hearing an idiot like you spew nonsense, I hope they tear the Eagles a new one this weekend.

[viva la american rugby]

"Steinberg just wants to be the women's olympic coach" So surely being part of a splinter group related to college rugby would be a logical step to that? ........ There is less than 0 ounces of logic in that assertion. It's negative logic. If you want to be a national team coach surely the best way to do that is to stay in the good graces of the national governing body? Cmon dude. THINK

And no one has an updated list yet. Doc didnt say they were having trouble getting coaches. He just said that he wasnt joining. And that he personally emailed USAR to tell them "what side he was on". Like Doc a lot but does he know that USAR isnt on his side?

[Ready to Pounce]

OK. We established that Japan sucks at rugby and Uruguay is a third world country. Both arguments are completely wrong, so let's stop bashing other countries because we are frustrated that the Eagles have been underperforming for years.

Regarding the USCRA, I was told they have 75+ coaches that have signed on to support the organization's mission. They have every D1 team in Nor Cal minus Cal and are working on membership. Doc Jones seems convinced that they are out to take over rugby, but from the interview with Melville and McNamara on ARN it sounded like the USCRA was willing to work with USA Rugby to improve collegiate rugby. Just the mention that this group was forming caused USA Rugby to create a strategic plan and state they would hire some people dedicated to the college game.

If like in business where the first company to arrive in a market learns the hard lessons and dies, I predict the guys on the sidelines like Doc and Clark are waiting till the landscape is clear and then they will jump into the fold probably under a new banner and model. My guess is that the schools with strong Athletic Department relations will wait to let the the USCRA pioneers take the first hard hits and then they will come in to reap the benefits that are there hopefully for all. However, I can see a world where the USCRA ends up through shear will forcing USA Rugby into a weak negotiating position trying to take rugby over, and the second wave of coaches for change end up with the majority of the CIPP booty for the established teams going to nationals year in and year out where all the money flows into USA Rugby still as CIPP. Basically the USRCA breaks down USA Rugby and then the most established programs grab the cash under a new alliance with USA Rugby. The big get bigger. It is the American way.

[Hype machine-NOT!]

RTP,

I think you are mostly but not totally correct.

First, Doc doesn't sound like he has any devious motives to me.

In listening to Jack, it is clear he doesn't think much of USA Rugby's management of college rugby. He's been very critical of USA Rugby's handling of the college game, going so far as saying USAR was exploiting the college game. I can't see him working with Nigel Melville.

Where you are 1000% correct the USCRA is having the desired effect on USA Rugby. They are under pressure, as well they should be. Where it leads who knows. Lets remember USAR is under pressure in all aspects of their performance. National team results, sponsorships, cracks in the RSL, HS heading towards self-rule, money losing budgets, and through this all, they really don't look to be sweating. Maybe its the way the unions bylaws read, with Congress having so little say in matters.

In other words they, the leaders of USAR, aren't sweating any of this, because they can't be touched.

This means college rugby pulling away is the only answer. The question however remains, under what plan. Thus far we haven't seen a plan from anyone. USAR can't be trusted to make a plan, because lets be honest, their heart isn't really in college rugby. As pointed out above, they are only reacting to the the noise being made by a few coaches calling themselves USCRA, which at this point is nothing.

USCRA is also worrying. For example, RTP is clearly a supporter and is offering the behind the curtain data that all the coaches have signed on in NorCal. And that 75 coaches have signed on. This has been what we've heard from USCRA every step of the way, hype! Why the need for hype if things are going so well. Why not just publicly update the sign-up list. Well, this can't be done because this is all hype.

Let hope USAR takes the bait, runs frightened and reacts to the pressure. But the USCRA shouldn't expect to be taken seriously until they start listing teams aligning themselves to the new organization. Multiple coaches from the same team, doesn't really mean much now does it.

Also to your final point, some of the biggest programs are already part of the USCRA, like Penn State and Army. Although you main tenet that its the second attempt that normally overthrows the King is spot on.

[Old Board]

What if Congress grew a pair and publicly demanded the Board be accountable, with the Chairman stepping down and the CEO being relieved of his duties. Forget the bylaws, what if they made demands, called in the IRB, went to the world rugby press, told the clubs they represent to not send in their dues until changes were made. How long would those bylaws matter then?

New people running USAR with new priorities.

People who think like Americans, using our natural strengths of our high schools and colleges.

Would we still be breaking up the organization into parts?

Of course not! Why have there been 150 posts on the topic, because... CONGRESS ISN'T GOING TO GROW A PAIR.

WE ARE FUC*KING PRISONERS, CAUGHT BETWEEN A BUNCH OR FOREIGN WANKERS AND A GUTLESS CONGRESS.

WE DON'T NEED THE USCRA WE NEED A FUC*KING MIRACLE.

[OMBAC]

The Super League has all but ruined OMBAC. The club was one of the best, strongest, most well supported and respected clubs in the US. With the help of the RSL; teams playing at different locations, teammates not eligible to play on all OMBAC teams, the cost associated with RSL travel, the club is a shadow of its old self. With Belmont and Santa Monica now out of the competition, OMBAC should drop out and drop back into to having a club the envy of all others. Build from within boys.

[a w is a w]

How ahve the Eagles underproformed this year? They have played four matches against sides that they could / should beat. They have won three of those matches.

The wins have not been pretty but they are wins. And that is a start.

By Saturday afternoon the Eagles should be in the WC. They will find themselves in a pool with Ireland, Austrailia, Italy and Europe 1.

The Eagles will obviously target Italy and E 1.

By contrast Canada will play NZ and France, Tonga and Asia 1 (Japan most likely).

Given Japans ascendency Canada will find themselves in a tough spot.

So cheer up everyone - things aren't perfect with US Rugby but it's not nearly so bad as people make it out to be.

[Ciao Bella You Clown]

Target Italy? Are you serious? Eagles have no chance against Italy.

[WRT]

You know as I read through these posts, one thing is certain. Under the Kevin Roberts chairmanship the last several years, its clear we are really starting to "fall in love with rugby".

Seriously, there has never been more disharmony and lack of direction. This is what happens when the administration thinks they know better, when they are condescending to the members. It has taken awhile for them to be found out, three years in fact, but USARFU is without any form of identifiable leadership.

[tried of excuses]

Interesting how the bar has been lower under this administration. We use to believe we could beat anybody on a given day. Naive? Maybe, but that's how the we thought as Americans.

Then came the foreign coaches and their administration and we were told we were amateurs and we shouldn't expect to beat the pros. After all they said, we weren't full-time, weren't fit enough and so on.

The message was don't expect us foreign boys to do as well as the previous administrations, we'll tell you how to evaluate our performance, after all we are from rugby playing nations and have the accents to prove it. Code for pay no attention to our win/loss record which is the worse in USAR history.

Now it seems they have invented a new phrase, "winnable games". The only games which count are winnable games. Forget that THEY has been crushed in these winnable games over the last three years, we are just to forget all other matches against those un-winnable 'A' teams traveling out of season.

Sorry mate, you lost me with your first set of excuses, this winnable crap is for suckers.

[Beagles]

Regardless of the results, the Eagles as part of USA Rugby are a failure because they are sucking all the money out of it, which includes a large amount (couple million) of CIPP dues that players and clubs pay that should be invested in the game. If the Congress did one thing to right the wrongs of the current administration, it would be to force the national team programs to live off of the money they raise from sponsors, broadcast rights and grants (IRB). They should not see the CIPP revenue. Maybe then Roberts would go through his contacts and get on the phone and get a logo on that kit that pays the bills. For Christ sake they were playing this past weekend in the red off the shelf Worldrugbyshop.com Adidas strips! That is what a college club faced with an emerging third side does.

[tick tock]

Speaking of that KR quote about falling in love with rugby. I read him quoted in the foreign press where the quote was associated with his mission as chairman and it was he wanted to "make Americans love rugby the way we do". "We" has in others than Americans. Yep, that's condescending.

[Off with his head]

I think the only thing that will rid the administration of rugby in the USA from foreigners will be a complete and utter meltdown of the Eagles program causing the IRB to back off. Let's not pull any punches here. The IRB came in because us natives f'd up rugby so bad in the USA that the national team and the union was ready to fold. Now we are paying the price. I think there is one person that has been consistent through this entire Arnot / Melville nightmare, and that is Bob Latham. He is the one that must go too when we wash this filth off our hands.

[none of you could do better]

What a bunch of racists! You all sound like Toby Keith or something. "This is AMERICA... we don't like no funny talkers! YeeeHaaawwww!"

My god... if a person has been in a professional rugby environment his whole life... I think that might qualify him to organize this mess slightly more than some of you schlubs who beat your chest because you are the President of some crappy D3 club.

I'm not saying the current USAR system is perfect, but I surely bet none of you could do better!

[firemelville.com]

That's what I thought, lets bring in some rugby pros and let them clean up this Doug Arnot mess.

Now three years on, we are more messed up than ever before.

From here after three years, no results, no plan and no unity, its simple. NEXT!!!!

[Cooter]

Racist? What does this have to do with race? The disdain for the current group is with regard to direction they are taking the union (club centric, regional competitions, the national team generates union revenue, serve the IRB interests). This works in most commonwealth nations, but not in the USA which requires a state-based, HS and collegiate based and where the investment of the member dues goes back to the members. It isn't about race, it is about the model used.

[Flynn Hagerty]

"My god... if a person has been in a professional rugby environment his whole life... I think that might qualify him to organize this mess slightly more than some of you schlubs who beat your chest because you are the President of some crappy D3 club."

Then why is USARFU run worse than when it really was run by D3 club presidents?

[Benjaman Olver]

Flynn,
The IRB is calling the shots.
Nige is nothing but a puppet.
For the next year we will hear him talk about reforming structure, blah, blah, blah. The fact of the matter is, he had an agenda from day 1. Now that he is found out, he will lie, cheat and steal to hold the position of his employer - the IRB. Don't believe a word from his scurvied mouth.

[College Rugby]

RTP,
the more established programs? All the nor cal teams have signed on minus cal, plus byu, army and psu. What more established teams are out there? I like your thoughts but it's just not going to work out that way. There are no competing companies. No one is going to cut out this college or that college because it was part of "the first wave". If the 2nd org in thinks it can build a legit association without those schools I'd love to see them try. Of course they woudlnt even think about it b/c colleges arent businesses competing against each other. the more included the better. Doc is on the sidelines because he has loyalty. For no good reason. Jack is on the sidelines, because he can be on the sidelines. There is no urgency for Cal to make any moves and when they wish to join the CRA or any other association will roll out the carpet. as they should

[Ready To Pounce]

I should have been more clear. I think I can see a model that would suite USA Rugby, the established programs and hurt the rest of college rugby. Say the USCRA forces USA Rugby to play a hand they don't want (i.e. commit CIPP money to college rugby), and then the onlookers jump in and do something like this:

16 team USA College Super League
CIPP Funded
National Championships Televised on ESPN

The rest of the colleges (the ones who pay most the CIPP fees) can suck beans and play in some hastily organized USRCA national competition.

[Davy Crockett]

All I know is that 10 years from now this current leadership will no doubt be long gone and, God willing, me and my redneck friends will still be teaching kids how to play rugby.

[College Rugby]

RTP. eh. you are sticking too closely to this first in die and 2nd in live. and that they have to be mutually exclusive.

but i think u make a good point about the uscra shaking usar up though. something good will come out of this. what, we dont know.

[rentalife.com]

Well isn't it all very insightful of what rugby is like in America.

Same old crap posts on the same old tired issues and what changes ? Nothing.

A SBO movement begins, what changes in Boulder ? Nothing.

Breakaway College Association, coaching, playing, whatever. What will happen in Boulder ? Nothing.

CIPP pays the CEO and President of Rugby 275K plus and delivers zero, what happens ? Nothing.

Chairman is an arrogant prick who can't be troubled to attend a domestic test, what happens ? Nothing.

Irish coach is paid 250K and isn't any better than coaches before him who got less, and what happens ? Nothing.

It is all so sad that bloggers are posting about topics completely different than what the what was written - an article about the age difference of our guys versus Uruguay. What happens ? Nothing.

[third half....third world]

Uruguay may be a third world country in your mind, but there team sponsor "Itaú" sure isn't.

Itaú Unibanco Holding S.A, the largest financial conglomerate in the Southern Hemisphere and is the 10th largest bank in the world by market value.

Big bad ole USA needs to pay for their way to the World Cup with high school kid fees to the union. Sounds like USA is in the rugby third world to me.

[POW]

Wrong. America is a world power in every sense of the word. It's only our rugby administration at USAr which is third world. Hell, forth world.

[RSL season at brink]

I know everything bad can't be blamed on Nigel Melville and this BOD, but another team, Old Blue, just dropped out of the RSL.

Other than the highly funded Eagles winning their winnable games, remind what is going well under this administration.

Colleges are pissed and want out from under USAR.

Same with the HS.

RSL hasn't received any love from USAR, resulting in the clubs wearing the burden 100% themselves.

Meanwhile USAR has been wasting millions in IRB grants and more millions in CIPP member dues funds.

American rugby is in meltdown. No you say, we will qualify for the RWC and win a match, so what!

There is zero vision and leadership coming out of Boulder or the Board. This has been going on for three years. When is Congress going to turn up the heat?

Why are we paying these fools hard earned dues money? Oh yea, cheep third party insurance, that the colleges don't need and the clubs could purchase for the same or a lesser price.

Sorry, $250k is too much money for the Eagles coach. Nigel, $275K is on out-of-line for your production and abilities.

SOS...IRB, SOS...Congress

[none of you could do better]

How is it USAR's fault the Super League is suffering? They are not connected. THEY ARE TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES!! The Super League thought they could do better on their own... and this is the result.

This is going to be the same result for the USCRA. Some yahoo earlier said he thinks the USCRA will provide this:

"16 team USA College Super League
CIPP Funded
National Championships Televised on ESPN"

That is the exact same idea the SL had... and sadly, It's not working.

PLUS, Just because USAR has partnered w ESPN, does not mean they are interested in striking a deal with USCAR. As rugby is a niche sport (believe it or not), ESPN won't waste time dealing with a break off organization. (notice the XFL didn't last long)

[POW]

I fear you are correct and we will remain prisoners of these as*holes.

They are wasting millions of rugby development dollars. Elect each other to position without elections. Pay over the top salaries for occasional (Eagles head coach) and below average work (all involved).

BTW, yes USAR could have provided some sponsorship opportunities for the RSL, had they been able to create any sponsorships. It would only make sense that an Egles sponsor would also enjoy the benefits of the next tier down. USAR could have also made the case with the IRB that a healthy RSL helps to build a complete and healthy USAR. They could have advocated for a slice of RSL funding as opposed to winners like the NA4 multi-million dollar bust or the ARC six-figure bust.

Once again, zero leadership out of the administration. And tools like you defending the administration being accountable for nothing is perfect, now isn't it. USAR is at fault for nothing. Rome is burning to the ground and none of it is USAR's fault. RSL in collapse, college want to pull out, and the best you defenders can say, is it isn't our fault and you won't be successful without our (USAR) authority.

The shame is, I think you might be correct. We are prisoners.

[Shep]

This could have all been solved during my lunch break, but dinner is ready to be served. Dinner will be soup followed by lime jello.

We will be at rock bottom as the WC approaches, fielding an old team and wayward boots with 30 meter range.

Dublin Nige has succeeded in his plan, devaluing American rugby. After the sabotage of the top league, the final piece of the puzzle is to fleece and run.

Expect to see declared losses in the millions after another half-ass program or league fails to establish in infancy. We will be scared with impending bankruptcy as these clowns sell off everything to their friends.

It was all part of the plan.

[nige indirect]

Just for laughs I visit Nige's blog every once in awhile.

He has a blog up roughly stating that now that youth rugby is on fire thanks to him and his pals and HS teams are on the rise (they've been on the rise at the same rate for about 15 years, thank you)...he is now going to turn his attention to the colleges, see you fools this has all been part of a brilliant master plan.

Everything in its right time and place old boy.

No shit, this guy writes this stuff with a straight face. He thinks we'll believe him.

[none of you could do better]

You may not believe him... but its laughable to think he has some sort of conspiracy against the union! Shep & NI, I bet you two also believe that the President was born in Kenya, and was sent here on a big conspiracy to ruin America!

The truth is, none of you fools knows how professional international sports operate. I'd like to hear what a person who works for FIFA or US Soccer has to say about the situation.

[performance stupid]

There isn't a conspiracy so to speak. There is a 1st time CEO and an out of touch BOD trying their best. Their biggest issue was they remained arrogant through all their mistakes, leading to this point in time.

Melville is out of his depth. He hasn't been in charge of this many people or this diverse workload.

The BOD is a sham. Big time ad guy KR, hasn't delivered. KR has surrounded himself with flunkies and the bill has come due.

Where the conspiracy lies is in the cover up. The BOD was caught in the last meeting dishing full-on lies to Congress. They have attempted the sell poor performance as good performance from day one.

Hey dude, we all wanted them to be successful. Some noticed things were weird at 6 months, it took other years to see the fraud.

Conspiracy or not, the performance over years, with millions in IRB grants and CIPP income is unacceptable.