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09 June 2009

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EOS could be the next to go. I am sure he knows the terms of the Ulster coaching position and has feelers out, and if he has a brain in his head he is evaluating how realistic the chance of developing an Eagle side he can be proud of for the 2011 WC really is and how stable the administration of USA Rugby.

If EOS takes an Eagles side to the WC that is an embarrassment along with its' union, his coaching career is over. If he goes to Ulster and has a couple of good seasons (they have the money and talent), he can set himself up for another run at the 2015 WC with Scotland, Wales, England or even Ireland again.

He may be able to survive a WC cycle with a developing nation like USA if judged on player ability alone, but if he stays on board with a union that is in free fall his judgment and common sense will be questioned. It is a small world these guys live in, and I am sure Johnson has already let decisions makers in the UK know that USA Rugby is a joke. Eddie will not want his career to be tarnished with the label of going down on the SS Melville.

Melville was on the Welsh speaking channel S4C while in Wales recently (not interviewing with the Scarlets) and basically told the Welsh viewing public he is single handedly saving American rugby.

My friends in Wales that know the score here here said the comments made them spit out their tea !

O'Sullivan has likely figured Melville out by now if my mates in Wales have !

Typical losing captain Melville. Say the right things to the decision makers. Position yourself close with those who can do for you. Distance yourself from those who can't help you or have failed. Systematically remove all challenges by taking credit for success. Systematically discredit or remove those who failed while implementing your policy - before it bites you.

Seems like Roberts and Melville are cut from the same cloth.

Unless Declan Kidney totally blows it in Ireland, EOS wont be going there anytime in the next 10 years.
Screw USA Rugby at Boulder. EOS will do what he has to, to help USA XV's in the WC, he'll then get a job in the Premiership and a U.S. groomed coach under Eddie will take over then.
I will bet that in the next 12 months or so, USA Rugby leadership and the Board of Directors are going to start jumping ship as the focus on their ineptitude is intensfied and their shady business practices with the rugby budget is uncovered.
Wishful thinking maybe, but I wouldnt bet against it.

No coach lasts a decade in international rugby. Declan has to figure out how to continue to win while bringing in some young new stars to match the likes of BOD, ROG, O'Connell, etc. If the Irish are not 1 or 2 in the next 2 six nations and a semifinalist in the 2011 WC, Declan is gone.

What about the 10k+ at the Ireland game. Second largest crowd ever in US Eagles history, plus the best crowd that USA Rugby has ever had (the SA game in TX was run by an outside organization). Yes Toyota was down, but that is what we have in the US. Small crowds.

Toyota Park is not worth traveling to watch a match. Difficult to get to, difficult to leave. I felt dirty walking in and dirtier walking out. Once is enough for me.

There are other ghettos that I try to avoid as well.

A good chunk of the crowd in Santa Ana were Plastic Paddys and Irish expats. You are always going to get good numbers when you play Ireland.

I hate to say it, but we are way behind some of the countries we like to compare ourselves with regarding rugby (other tier 2 nations). Look at Japan with a pro-league, getting 10K plus people at U20 matches, the head of their union is an ex-Prime Minister, rugby dedicated stadiums and they have a legit bid for the 2015 or 2019 WC.

Canada seems to have drawn big crowds for their matches against Ireland and Wales, plus they seem to have plenty of continuity in executing their plans (stable coach, 3+ year 2015 WC strategy in place and on target, U20 in top tier, etc). They also appear to have a capable marketing team, which is obvious by just going to their website. They also seem to be tied into national sports funding much better than than USA Rugby.

Santa Clara - sorry.

EOS will stay and his career will pay the price for it. This will make his last two jobs failures in many peoples eyes.

Melville will get another job at some point and haul ass. Roberts and Melville hate each other and one of them needs to hold the bag of shit. Don't look for this to be Roberts. He is a smart corporate type and he understands the world of corporate politics.

The hard part to figure in all this is what happens to Roberts and the Board. Beside Roberts, there is only Wacker that has any cred in the Biz/rugby world.

The balance of the Board are all around pretenders, lead by Middleton.

If Roberts can find a graceful exit he'll of course take it. Or maybe he'll wake up and realize he's not as rugby bright as he thought. He could swap out Melville and improve the day to day leadership while freshening up his Board with some people that understand US sport and rugby.

The Congress...well I have given up on this sorry lot. We threw them out for a reason. It works out that we needed them back to oversee this operation and they weren't up to it. I have given up on all form of Congress and local administration.

I think EOS jumps ship for Ulster or Edinburgh after this 7 game stint. I don't think it will be because of the lack of talent or potential of the Eagles, but rather the weak administration, funds and marketing ability at USA Rugby.

James,

Just curious, but why do you feel Toyota Park was hard to get to?

I hope for EOS sake you are correct BYE BYE.

He's deserves better than the USAR administration.

I'm not as sure as you he's in demand for those jobs. People like to go forward and EOS might be seen as a safe retreat hire for some.

The Eagles will make the RWC through the back door. What will EOS overall record be after RWC 2011? I'm betting 2-9 or something like that after this year. Maybe the same in 2010, making him 4-18 going into the WC year. If the Eagles play a strong schedule going into the WC, they could be winless in 2011. Maybe they grab a win at RWC, but the EOS term as Eagle coach won't be a anything to brag about.

Now if the administration is changed, this record could be marginally improved.

Still US rugby is a RWC away (2015) from making a splash and this will only happen if we get our house in order. Which implies a new administration and a new direction. Prioritizing HS, college rugby and a senior domestic competition while increasing the number of real athletes playing rugby in the US.

I hope you are correct and EOS gets a job offer, he deserves better than this administration. Some young US born coach should be struggling through our current situation, not a good, but high priced coach such as EOS.

I think you are being a little ambitious thinking the Eagles can make a splash by 2015 WC. Argentina didn't get to the QF in the WC till 1999 and then 8 years later made it to a semi-final, and that was with Marcelo Loffreda coaching from 2000 through the 2007 WC with the same squad most all based in France playing professionally. That is a lot of time, continuity and professionalism to get to the semi-final. Not sure if USA can manage that type of effort with the current lot in charge.

Hell I was just thinking win two matches at RWC, get a victory the Eagles weren't supposed to get, maybe limp into the quarters. This was the splash I was referring to.

Semi's! Please, not a chance in 2015.

We also have NO chance of even moderate success under the current leadership.

Guys, dont you think the rest of the rugby nations know that EOS is in a no win situation? They'll take that into consideration after he leaves after the WC. They wont hold it against him either. If he makes the U.S. team even 40% better, they'll welcome him back with open arms anywhere in europe.

As far as Toyota Park, I liked the stdium, but it was hard to get to by public transport because it wasnt advertised. I had to call the bus lines and even they wernt for sure.

Lastly, Canada and Japan have gone further than us in rugby
because they dont have the same professional sports viewing options we do. Japan has baseball season and sumo season. Canada has hockey, CFL, some MLB and thats it. Rugby here faces an uphill battle for fans, when you have people at Boulder who dont really care to help us.

EOS doing 40% better...what does this mean?

The Eagle coaches for this administration have only won 4 matches in several seasons, including the World Cup. The Island nation of Barbados and Uruguay and few times. Losing 20 or so other times to include losing ground on Canada and Japan and falling to 19th in the world ranking.

So EOS improving the Eagles 40% means a couple of victories more over a two and a half year term.

EOS will wear this administrative failure around his neck, while Melville tells his friends it was the Boards fault and Roberts tells his mates how much progress he made with those yanks.

Japan is ahead of us because they are highly organized, committed and well funded. The president of their union is an ex-Prime Minister. They have a fully funded pro league with rugby dedicated stadiums that seat 30K. They have a national rugby stadium that holds over 40K people, and is full regularly. If you know anything about rugby clubs in Japan, you will know that regularly there are announcements of clubs investing a million or more dollars into a new ground or club house. These are plan old clubs for recreation and not pro clubs. They have an active rugby community and are not a bunch of whiners. They support the game.

Rugby in Japan has always been substantially more popular than it is here.

Of course that's because the foundation of the Japanese game is the very strong association it has with the universities. Whoa!

Very true, and not just your plain old universities. It is an important sport in the most prestigious universities in the country.

Careful what you wish, Being sarcastic when I said 40%. If EOS wins a few more times than his predecessors, he'll be considered a success although to the rest of rugby world it wouldnt register a blip.
I'm sure Japan has a great setup for rugby there, but what else do they have there sports wise beside baseball? Japan has a great setup there with the people in charge of their rugby and the U.S. could take some notes from their success.

If you've watched tonights game, it looks like EOS's game plan was straight from the Rugby for Dummies book.

Nothing has changed in Japan's rugby in 20 years. Rugby has been a significant high school and college sport for all this time. Japan has had a semi-to full professional corporate league for this entire time.

What has changed is we have gone from beating Japan before this administration, to losing to them under this administration.

Japan are no more professional now, nor do they have more ex-pats on the Cherry B's than before. The only difference is the Eagles have regressed.

The race to the bottom continues.

You are wrong. The JRFU has invested millions of dollars into youth rugby over the last 20 years. The fruit of that investment is starting to show up on the test side. Also, the diet in Japan has changed in the last 20 years to a more western diet. The result is that they are starting to get some big boys in their side.

They have been getting the same tier two IRB grants as we have been getting and they have just invested better. They have planned better. They've had better union leadership.

Nothing structural, just smart people planning well.

Compare this with what USAR have none with millions in IRB funding over the last four seasons and the contrast is appalling.

They have way more than just IRB money. They have a massive budget, as evident by the fact that they spent 1M Pounds on a 2011 WC bid that went to NZ. That is a 1M Pound investment to TRY and get a WC! You don't know much about rugby in Japan fact boy.

Their bid was based on the commercial success the cup could have had in Japan. Like in rugby playing nations the cup would have made money in Japan.

Sponsorship is also quite good in Japan. This is largely due to the unions work and commitment to hosting excellent events, and bringing those events to air.

The JRFU has done an excellent job with the media. All matches on TV from the odd pro-corporate match to the finals of the HS and university championships to the national team.

The US were beating this team and union and most occasion before the foreign invasion of Roberts and Melville reversed the tide.

Full credit should be given to the JRFU for their excellent leadership of Japanese rugby. As pointed out they have been at it for awhile, but the facts remain the US won the big matches like in RWC and had an overall winning record.

It wasn't until Meville and Roberts term that the Japanese overtook the US in rugby.

Together with the trashing the Canadians have been delivering in tells a story about what the USAR administration has accomplished with millions in IRB support. As well as how little USAR has done for themselves in the commercial markets.

Having a talented and dedicated coach in John Kirwin in place since early 2007 with sweeping control over the age grade system and all other pathways to the senior side doesn't help either.

The US almost got JK, but he looks to have may the right choice.

What he has done best is use the Japanese culture to his advantage. He has shown great respect for the Japanese people and their rugby.

Compare this with Thornburn and Johnson, where they talked down to the players and Americans in general.

Correct, Kirwin has been a home run for Japan. I think his stint in Italy really helped him know how to be a stranger in a strange land. Something the current USAR administration could use a lesson in.

The Japan U20 side crushed the Eagle U20 side last year in the 2008 Junior World Cup (JWC) in Wales, which was the deciding match that pushed the Eagles U20 side into the lower Junior World Rugby Trophy competition in Kenya with the likes of Cayman Islands and Korea. Meanwhile Japan is hosting the JWC this year and getting crowds of 10K plus to watch matches. We can not even get 10K to watch our senior side take on Wales. We are miles behind Japan.

Bonsai,
You sound like you know what you are talking about. Shame you didn't do anything to improve USA Rugby while part of it.

John Kirwin played professionally in Japan for NEC for a few years, which set him up to be more than just a hired coach. Like in Italy where he fell in love with the country and married a local while playing professionally (under the table pre-1995), Kirwin fell in love with Japan including its rugby culture. We are not going to get coaches like that in the USA because we do not have a pro competition, and our rugby culture is...well....developing.

Bonsai,

Its about leadership. Anything is possible with effective, passionate leadership from the top.

US rugby had just under 30 years of amateur, volunteer leadership. These individuals didn't do so bad upon reflection. Then the Doug Arnot mess brought US rugby into a tailspin they couldn't recover from. Badly needing assistance the administration turns the union over to the IRB. The IRB then installs a foreign body to run USAR. These new men are well paid by USAR and well supported by the IRB. Their results have been the poorest in the history of US rugby. This over a period of several years.

Maybe EOS will be our Kirwin. However we will still need to find a group of men and women capable of taking US rugby to the next level and beyond.

Without the right bus driver it doesn't matter the seat arrangements. I read on here where the Melville-Robert Eagles, their hand picked coaches, and budget allocations are 4-26. Enough said, they need to go and a more committed, more capable CEO and Chairman are required.

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