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21 April 2008

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Why does USA rugby even bother with women's rugby? How will it further the game? If anything it is taking away resources from places that need it. There is no money in womens sports. Look at the pro soccer league that folded.

Agreed
Its as dull as ditch-water anyway.
Fat, comfy-shoe wearing monsters waddling around constantly dropping the ball is an awful way to advertise the game.

Concentrate on promoting the men's game then let the women build their game as an after-fact just like every other rugby playing country.

I'll be generous and assume that ???? and Junior are attempting to be funny, because these sorts of ignorant comments are neither accurate, nor neccessary.

Gentleman,

Womens rugby is extremely competitive in most countries and is increasingly an outlet for athletic young women are demonstrate respect for the nuances of our great sport to their male counterparts.

Your attitudes are puerile and reflect the arrogance carried by far to many male rugby players in the US - and not the rest of the world.

The coverage by the Albuquerque Journal is a great shame and the conduct of the players in question an embarrassment to the code, and has been recognized as such by the USA rugby union.

Sara John, USA Rugby media director was quoted in the only other local newspaper story, as promoting only womens rugby. She went on about the grow rate of womens rugby. She never even mentioned the mens competition. The story itself was similar to the potty mouth story in that it was all human interest. We drag 48 teams to one location, in a small market, with a near clear sports calender and we get two bullshit stories and not one score. Yet another good job, USA Rugby.

Sara can't even send out the right scores for the event. She's in over her head.

I was at the nationals in ABQ, and the teams and coaches behavior was beyond unprofessional in many cases. I saw one team that played in jerseys with numbers taped on them. I saw coaches prowling up and down the sidelines yelling DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE at their team when they are 70 yards away on the far touchline with their heads in a driving maul, then seamlessly begin to dispute a call and make a huge spectacle of himself only to do it again and again until he was horse and so red in the face I thought he was going to have a meltdown. I saw coaches let their team members that weren't on the field yell and taunt refs and opposition players during a match. I saw teams walking to and from their vans wearing t-shirts with cliche dumb rugby slogans like "I love hookers" and even a group of players with t-shirts that said, "Hey babe! Enjoy your meal" with an arrow pointing down toward their crotch. I saw a women's team members wrestle with each other after their match and simulate sex. I saw teams at the airport throwing balls around in the luggage area causing grieve for other passengers.

There is a reason why college rugby doesn't have any big sponsor money. The participants behavior and their leaders management skills are very poor.

I'll extend what the above poster said and extend it to all rugby (with the exception of the Eagles).

Rugby in the USA has a wholly juvenile disposition, and people aren't going to cover a bunch of drunken louts. The game as a whole possesses a drinking culture, but USA rugby takes it to a new level.

I would love to know which particular teams are being referenced by ABQ Observer, although frankly it wouldn't be difficult to guess by process of elimination. For those who may not know, Rick Humm, Coaching Director for USA Rugby, sent out an email (not sure who the recipient list was) regarding the story in the ABQ journal and implored the country's coaches to take control of their programs and start setting better examples. And he's absolutely right- if a team is acting unprofessionally, the blame should fall squarely on the shoulders of the coach(es). Professionalism begins at the top, and if the coach doesn't exhibit it him/herself and demand it from the players, then rugby will continue to be a renegade sport with only a cult following in this country. The problem is that I believe that a large number of rugby participants, both players and coaches, don't want it to be anything but a fringe sport.

Dear Coaches -


This weekend, USA Rugby celebrated a festival of College Rugby in New Mexico. A high level of play was witnessed as our top level college teams competed for spots in the upcoming finals scheduled for Stanford the first weekend in May. Media coverage was extensive and Albuquerque welcomed our community.

Unfortunately, as too often happens, the behavior of some of our teams played into the stereotypes many of the public maintain about our sport. The lead article about the tournament on Sunday in the Albuquerque Journal led off with "Never had I heard so many F-bombs dropped in such a short period of time. And we're talking about women's rugby, by the way."

We all can contribute to improving our public image. As coaches, you have a tremendous influence on the behavior of your teams and the supporters of your teams. Those supporters are often the family and friends of our players. As your programs set standards for themselves, you will affect the demeanor of your supporters.

USA Rugby has both a coach's code of conduct and a code of conduct for our elite level players. Please, feel free to use them in your programs to establish standards. If you wish, adapt them to best suit your program. They may be found on the Coaches section of the USA Rugby website (www.usarugby.org). A sideline protocol/code is in the works with the Rugby committee as well and will be posted soon.

We urge you to work with your programs to create a sense of proud ambassadorship in pursuit of our mission of Inspiring America to fall in love with Rugby.

All the best,
Rick

Inspiring America to fall in love with Rugby

Rick Humm | Coach Development Director | USA Rugby

2500 Arapahoe Avenue Suite 200 Boulder, CO 80302

Humm's letter states that:
"USA Rugby has both a coach's code of conduct and a code of conduct for our elite level players."

Perhaps rather than pick on the rank-and-file, USA Rugby could look at those closer into it's "Circle of Trust"

1) "elite level players" singing the S and M man in a national
television ad.
2) The conflict of interest (real or perceived) in women's rugby from the lower to higher levels. Coaches or others with selection power having romantic or sexual relationships with their players.

3) High level players and referees conducting events, sans CIPP. [Note, the Eagle 7s players was a while back -- and that was fixed]

If USA Rugby is going to pick on the "little people", then they should beat up on the big people -- the ones that know better.

By ignoring transgressions by the "big kids" (elite folks), they are just being bullies.

These college players need to learn to grow up a bit, and those older ones of us in the rugby community should teach them.

When you are going to a national championship, you are not only representing yourself, but every other team you played against and beat along the way.

If college teams want to wear "double entendre" (or single entendre for that matter) gear and act silly, then don't bother going to nationals.

Save your money and go to a social tournament. Maggotfest in Montana is a great celebration of social rugby. The locals understand and appreciate it for what it is.

Unfortunately, rugby is not as successful a sport in the USA as to have elite athletes who look and act like thugs off the field/court and are juiced up on illegal substances.

Do you think Humm sent a similar letter to the Eagles and employees who participated in the crass internet gay video ad? Participated for money I should include.

As I remember it, no one from USA Rugby, not the Chairman, CEO or Humm had anything to say. Now when its the Stanford womens rugby team, we get a public "be good" letter.

Ah, the USA Rugby leadership is indeed making me fall in love with rugby.

I'm glad this has happened. Rick Humm did the right thing by sending out that letter. Perhaps USA Rugby are being hipocritical but so what, everyone makes mistakes. Its time to get OUR house in order.

Listening to Radford sing "Zulu" on the internet feed is not the way forward!

I think that the other reason that you see this type of behavior is that none of the coaches get paid. These guys are volunteers and it shows. Some never played at a college or club that had a high standard of professionalism, so they think it is fine that their side is walking around with semi-offensive t-shirts, that they are ranting and raving on the sideline, that their team is taunting the ref or that they are at the nationals with jerseys that don't have numbers.

Women's rugby is a whole different kettle of fish that has a culture I do not understand. However, there is a lot of sexual undertones to their behavior combined with exaggerated bursts of aggression and displays of dominance. Seeing girls beat their chest with bravado and then have them be snuggling with each other after a loss for an extended period of time may be part of women's rugby culture, but it doesn't really mix well with men's rugby culture and should probably be a separate competition.

Let womens rugby do whatever the hell they want. Swear, kiss, snuggle, fight, date each other, wear whatever floats their boat, just NEVER put the mens D1 together with them again.

Wake up USA Rugby!

But wait! Women's rugby is an emerging NCAA sport! It's the key to the future of rugby in this country! Right??

That is right! Let the NCAA deal with women's rugby and let USA Rugby worry about men's rugby.

Agreed, the women rugby players are the main culprits as far as lacking professionalism goes. It's not hard to recognize and understand this. They are girls/women who have chosen to play a rough and tumble sport that does not readily go hand in hand with feminine behavior. They obviously enjoy being seen as on the fringe, macho, eccentric, whatever. Wearing shirts such as those described is the most blatant example of this.

And the reality of women's rugby, although it is not this way at every school, is that there are a lot of sexual issues within clubs. It is my opinion that sexual undercurrents within the participants can not be part of a sport if the sport itself is to be the main focus of the club, as opposed to whether the scrumhalf is currently with the prop or the wing (all males are surely hoping for the latter).

Women's rugby is not the vehicle to move this sport. The D1 men's competition is that vehicle, if we're looking at the college ranks for one.

The truth is that rugby is still seen as a "lifestyle statement" by a significant percentage of the rugby population in America.

While the motivations to make that "lifestyle statement" may differ between the women and the men, the dysfunction it breeds holds back the sport amongst both sexes.

In Canada and New Zealand, the women's versions of the game are treated with much more respect than they are by our own community.

What happened to the old school value of respecting the game?

Its a shame that Humm's letter even had to be written.

If I were the National Guard I would pull my sponsorship this instant; along with the jerseys off the backs of the players who disgraced the game.

Its no wonder the state of the game has not improved over the past 30 years.

As a former national level player who still follows and cherishes the greatness of rugby, it pains me that I am contemplating to steer my kids away from the sport because of antics like these.

Hold these imbeciles accountable. Get club names and post them for all to see. A few years back, Denver disgraced themselves on a return plane trip from the 7s or 15s championships. A big stink was made in the local papers about the behavior. To their credit, the club fronted up by publicly apologizing and making some necessary personnel changes. Look where they are today - tops of the RSL. Not sure if that is why they are where they are now but good things happen to good people doing good work. Some call it Karma, paying it forward, or whatever.

But gosh guys (and gals), can't we give our game a break and give it every chance it needs to get to the next level?

Chuck Norris says - SD Hitman, you are right, sadly, and I feel your pain.

Chuck's boys are nowhere near a rugby ball. Chuck pushed them towards lacrosse. Well run, well organized, swelling ranks of kids across our fruited plains.

They have a game they can play well into their 40's, with opportunities for college.

Chuck remembers watching a certain womyns team (a territorial team - not a club!) at the College Mens ITTs in Boulder a few years ago swear, cavort and dry hump each other on the sidelines - in full view of and next to spectators, mostly parents and families of the college players.

Revolting behavior - no admonishment.

Hitman, Chuck, not only does USA Rugby need you, we need your offspring's. Why not tell the employees in Boulder what we expect before joining the lacrosse rank and file. Tell them to keep our events separate. Tell them to create events that look like American sport, not cult rugby. Tell them to punish poor behaviors. Tell them if they don't listen, they will be working for lacrosse.

The important thing is for our children to play rugby and for them to learn at an early age that this type of behavior is not acceptable. It is just as important that there are coaches teaching these values to the children. We need to teach them to respect the game. As many have said before, rugby will never be taken seriously until we have respect.

I am very disappointed in the behavior that I have seen and heard about from players throughout the country. It is sad that this is what they think rugby is, because no one has taught them otherwise. I commend the players and clubs (both men & women... young & old) that represent themselves, their clubs, and rugby respectfully.

There should be penalties for the rest.

Chuck Norris says - well, Rugby Dad, I would hope Nigel Melville was there in person in NM.

Anyone know if he was?

He was there.

I agree with P. Kane, SD Hitman & the ever-wise Mr.Norris.

What was the rationale for combining the Men's and Women's tournaments? I can't think of another collegiate sport that does this. Does Boulder know something the NCAA does not?

Given the largely shoe-string, self-funded state of collegiate rugby finances, does it make any sense to have 64 teams travel to a semi-isolated area of the country to sort out the final 4 in each? Who's brilliant idea was that?

What's wrong in having regional winners compete in a final 4? Seems logical the broader you spread the competition, the more likely the possibility for behavioral conduct issues from leaderless, clueless teams.....and there are more than a few out there.

Does USA Rugby have an organized process for defining and enforcing acceptable behavior and, if necessary, punishing unacceptable behavior at its events? Is there anyone in Boulder, other than Rick Humm, who cares enough to address an obvious problem?

This site has seen many a posting where writers have chosen to beat up on others (including its owner), so why, in this case, protect the guilty? If anyone can name the bad actors in New Mexico, why not name them? It isn't likely that officialdom will.

Ed Schram, Sr.

Totally agree, lets name and shame!

I think you can probably eliminate all the Mens D1 teams right off the bat. Then you can likely eliminate Coast Guard and Middlebury. That leaves 6 possibilities from the D2 men. Not saying any of them are culprits, I just don't know enough about the programs to eliminate them. The fact that Radford was singing "Hey zulu warrior" keeps them in contention.

With the women, can we eliminate Navy, Penn State, Stanford and Vassar? That leaves all the rest of the women's teams in play.

The article in the local newspaper was about the Stanford Womens team and their use of "f-bombs".

I was there in ABQ, with whistle in hand, and the behavior I saw was excellent accross the board. Anyone who has the impression that ABQ was filled with boorish behavior has the wrong impression.

Additionally, despite concerns beforehand, the pitches were outstanding. 8 full size pitches, covered in thick green grass. Only big issue in my mind was that they could have added more bathrooms.

Also, Nigel was there. In fact he spent all day on Friday in a business suit because the airline lost his bags!

I saw the Loyola team (D2 mens) arrive at the airport in club blazers and ties, so I think they are in the clear.

I was not at the Sweet 16, so I am going off of pure speculation. However, I would imagine that the reaction to the comments of some "pretend journalist" who writes for a rag in N.M. with a circulation of 39 people, is a bit overblown. Truth be told, I hate the "lifestyle" image of rugby perpetuated by crass, unathletic women's teams who are mostly there to hook up with eachother. However- the majority of women's teams are buttoned-up outfits that are as dedicated to the sport and to being athletes as most men's teams are. Conversely, there are yahoo men's teams that perpetuate the image of rugby as a bunch of out of shape, pot-bellied, deuschbags who are only interested in singing songs and wearing stupid t-shirts (Give Blood, Play Rugby).

Let's try to embrace and highlight all the good things that are taking place in our game and try to move away from the minority of clubs who insist on clinging on to the lame, dated image of rugby as potrayed by Chris Farley's character in Tommy Boy.

deuschbags?
Are they a new accessory?

I am offended by the ignorance shown in some of these posts. There are womens teams out there who are working on changing the face of rugby, the two main ones being Stanford and Penn State. Both of these clubs play an open, exciting version of rugby and if any of the commentators cared to watch either team play, they would see this for themselves. The women on these teams are true athletes and work hard in coniditoning, weight lifting and practice solely for the love of the game, the same love of the game that many of you share.

Some commentators here are just as guilty of stereotyping as the rest of America. If we cannot even break down stereotypes among rugby players, how can we expect to break down stereotypes outside of our community?

I am not saying that womens rugby isn't guilty of some of the things posted (I have seen some offensive behavior myself) but I am asking to be taken seriously as an athlete. Also, do not point fingers at others when they can easily be pointed back.

Hey 'A', save the lecture for your own. Never again should these championships be sited together.

I offer no judgement against your rights. Womens rugby should be free to do whatever they desire with rugby. They just shouldn't be allowed to color the game for the rest of us.

We've seen it all, from a gay member of the USARFU board getting married at a test match to the type of behavior that took place in NM. We currently have women Eagles dating each other. Now that's high performance USARFU.

Its your game as well ladies, do with rugby as you like. The best mens teams just don't want to be at events with you when it goes down. How about you stay at the Balloon Park next year and the mens competition moves elsewhere.

Wow. I don't even know where to start. Maybe with the fact that someone actually CALLED rugby-playing women "comfy-shoe wearing MONSTERS"??!!?? Really? Really? I don't know....I may be naive. But that doesn't exactly seem to be politically correct to me. Or nice for that matter. And as for attacking Sara John on her support of women's rugby....WHY? Maybe she needs to overcompensate for all the anti-women's rugby propaganda out there. MAYBE some people who do nothing but sit around and tear down other people anonymously on the internet should look elsewhere for a little self-esteem boost that they seem to be striving oh-so-hard for. Wake up people. Get a life.

Having the women's rugby clubs in ABQ was originally a good idea, but when they weren't assigned to wash and press the men's kits after their matches it didn't make sense anymore.

Remember - Women are property.

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