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21 February 2007


you should check and make sure that none of them have any overdue books to return.
The third div coach who unraveled this massive oversight, hopefully puts as much time into coaching as he does looking for faults.

Canadian I believe? I take it you did not read the whole story? The USA union requires that all players on a side in the USA must have a CIPP registration. They did not, hence they are in violation of their own policy, just plain amateurish. It is really a sore spot in this union. The clubs dole out lots of cash and get nothing in return.

Directors and officers of USA Rugby are suppose to be a member of the organization. Membership of the organization is achieved through the CIPP registration process. This is in the bylaws. The bylaws don't specifically cover whether employees of the organization have to be CIPP registered.

US Rugby could be run more professionally, that's for sure. We've hired a top class Director of Rugby with a pretty good pedigree in the professional game and then we've saddled him with running the CIPP program by giving him th ED job too!

This one's down to Roberts and the Directors, Kevin needs to stop spending so much time pretending he's from NZ and get the structure of US Rugby set up properly, both at the top end and at grassroots level.

The Eagles should not pick anyone that isn't a full-time player. Now, by that I don't necessarily mean highly paid, but you've got to give it 100 percent to even begin to compete at World Cup level. At that stage, who the hell cares whether thay're CIPPED or not. But, in that case change the rule.

Amateurish admin. Melville must wander what he's let himself in for.

Canuck, I think you are missing D3 coach's point.

USA Rugby makes a huge stink when players aren't CIPPd. The Div 3 coach is fair enough to ask why his guys are being held to a HIGHER compliance standard.

Heck, even people offering to GIVE AWAY their time to Rugby (Coaches and Referees) oftentimes must PAY to CIPP themselves -- even if they are offering their services on a volunteer basis to the so-called "grass roots" level.

Yet national-level players are being accorded the privledge to represent the country get a pass -- even those staying domestic and playing RSL, senior mens, or college.

When I administered a club, I've had to remind my teammates that they must CIPP before Saturday, or they cannot play. And guess what when they forget -- we have to sit our guys. If we played them and got caught, we'd have to forfeit, along with facing sanctions from our LAUs and TUs.

If club mgmt perople who have day jobs can e-mail their teammates to sort that stuff out, I imagine full-time rugby administrators can do the same!

So now the question is, USA Rugby going to suspend / sanction itself for players and coaches for CIPP violation?

Sounds silly right? So now that the national team has set the very low bar for CIPP compliance, do we just keep it there?

I agree with Canuck, why not see if they have any over due books.

I usually agree with a lot on this website and love my rugby but some one has way too much free time and must be why his team is in D3.

Note the strikethrough, it was a D1 coach, not a D3..it is one thing for a small club playing a middling union game to mess up, another for the highest club in the land to miss so many...what a joke.

I did not see the strike through, Although it is still a massive waste of time, CIPP can maybe be desecribed as waste of money but unless some one has a better system of keeping track of who plays for which team, and doing all of the other thankless jobs usa rugby does please stop complaining.

I don't want to sit here and be a usa rugby apologist, but I do think they do a lot of BS work that lays a platform for many of us to do what we love every saturday.

Also there a lot of other idiots on this thread that dont have real email address, I doubt John Broker actually wrote the post whinging about money they steal from college kids.

So, where did the funds suddenly come from to pay the dues of all these National Team members, from the dues fund that the rest of us had already paid into?

Strikethrough is in the 2nd paragraph. CIPP is BS, but so is driving 55 mph, smoking ganja, etc etc. That is why people get aggravated when police or their families do not get tickets like the rest of us- if you set the rules, then follow them.

Elite performance is what everyone judges a programme by. Canada's pedigree players have their clubs pay theirs in order to get them to play there. One thing that is common the world over is petit comittee men complaining about their unions. The best players shouldn't have to pay for the privillege of playing for their country.

The model the world over is that grassroots breeds elite performance, whilst at the same time funding it. That is the nature of the beast.

Who pays for it, is secondary to the issue that the National Team staff and office are letting things like this slip through the cracks, and then back dating things to cover up the issue.

This is a serious issues and needs to be investigated and explained.

People need to read the article and use appropriate descriptive words drawn from accurate conclusions.

Neither "BACKDATING" nor "COVER UP" is appropriate, if I read things correctly, vis a vis the 7's team CIPP status.

The Wellington tourney was 2/3 and 2/4, while San Diego was 2/10 and 2/11.

The 7's team's mass registration was 2/7.

So they registered after they got back from Wellington, but before SD.

How does that "backdate" anything? If the registration date was pre-Feb 3rd, THAT would be illicit. But that is not the case here.

And there is nothing bad or illicit about registering the team. (I do think people will wonder "who paid?", but that's another story in itself.)

But you can't knock them for CIPPing, albeit after Wellington.....

Bottom line is the rules should apply for all involved with US Rugby. Period. THAT should be the issue here... nothing else.

Of greater significance - Doesn't the lack of CIPP compliance by the majority of the National Office personnel, CEO, Chairman of the Board, Board of Directors, and most National Team Coaches bother anyone else? It should.

(And if you're gonna knock someone or imply illicit behaviours... please post your real info. Otherwise, it's all negative hearsay hidden behind anonymity.)

In a perfect world, once it was known who was going to be on the national sevens team, someone should have worked on getting all of the players, coaches, and managers CIPPed. You would have wanted that so they would have at least been covered under the third party insurance umbrella that is provided by CIPP. It didn't happen but they were CIPPed before the actual event in San Diego. So it does look like someone was trying to do the right thing.

Moreover, from January 2007 to February 2007, all of those players were all in limbo. They were not really attached to a team, who has an administrator/coach who would have insured that they were CIPPed, and they really were unsure whether or not they were going to be picked for the national team.

As for the other national coaches being CIPPed - in all likelihood because they haven't been performing coaching duties yet, they probably just didn't think that they needed to CIPP. It was probably just a simple oversight on their part, and they were probably getting ready to CIPP once they started in on their coaching duties.

That does leave Mr. Thorburn but there is no way that anyone knows whether he actually knew that he should have CIPPed himself. Remember, he came in during the middle of a cycle and everyone around him would have already gone through the registration process.

The national office staff - I would give them some leeway also based on the fact that for the first month of 2007 they were trying to figure out who was doing what under the new CEO, or even if they still had a job. Also, it may not be clear to the employees of the organization that they are responsible for CIPPing themselves, especially if others (no longer at the office) have CIPPed them in the past.

Nevertheless, you would have thought that the office manager at the national office would have CIPPed her boss, the Board of Directors, and the Chairman of the Board. Of course, you would have also thought that someone, i.e., the office manager, would have CIPPed all of the new Board of Directors once they took office in July of 2006. (At least one director never was CIPPed from July 2006 to February 2007.)

If the readers really want to show their outrage, they should send a letter of protect/inquiry to USA Rugby and specifically ask that the offending individuals be disciplined in some manner.

I wonder if this might be a furore over nothing. If you look up Todd Clever, for example, he was CIPP'ed with OMBAC on 1/8, but not with the national team until 2/7. The fact is he WAS CIPP'ed, just not for both his club AND the national team.

This is the first time one of these threads has turned into to a total and complete sham. Many of the people posting do not have a real email address, and the point of this article is kind of a waste.

Why on earth would admin people in the USA Rugby office CIPP? So they are eligable for the sweet 16? Is kevin roberts going to play full back for some team we dont know about..., cause I hear he is a great goal kicker and is good under the high ball. Is the USA rugby office entering their own team in the super league, comprised of half women and several part time employees?

Unbelieable - You are not John Broker, you are liar and a farce for putting his name as your email. John Broker is very professional and having worked with him on a couple of issues I believe usa rugby is very lucky to have him.

Interesting - why not put your real email? Kurt aren't you supposed to delete these people that dont have real emails.

ABOB - If your email is even real (which I doubt) You point about smoking dope makes no sense.

Rugby Dad - I don't understand how you can't see the leaps and bounds USA rugby has progressed in the last 6 months. One of the best Rugby CEO's in the world, a high power chairman of the board, a former all black coach, We should consider ourselves lucky and privliedged.

Lots of Questions - Investigation? Who are you kidding?

I still don't understand the fundamental question being proposed in this article, why are certain people at USA rugby not CIPP'd? For most, why would they in the first place? It makes sence Dave Williams is the only CIPP'd cause he is the only one that plays competitive rugby. If these other do not compete why would they be CIPP'd?

Another thing to think about in terms of players is that East Coast players haven't even started their seasons.

I feel as if the people criticizing this are the same people who are critical of USA rugby no matter what they do. They'll never give USA rugby a fair shot unless we win the world cup, tomarrow. When you are negative all the time, your arguments are greatly marginalized and should be dismissed by clear thinking people.

Also my REAL email is posted at the bottom if any one has a problem with anything that I said, I am happy to respond.

If elite players, coaches and administrators do not have to pay CIPP fees then the rules should be written to reflect this, otherwise a double standard exists incumbent with a degree of arrogance. While this could be seen as an oversight, USARFU, the TU's and LAU's spend a great deal of time and effort browbeating and threatening all to be CIPP'd. If a parent wants to run touch they must be CIPP'd. I was told I could not be on a committee to raise money for youth rugby until I was CIPP'd. I am 52 and have not played for several years. The edict has always been anyone that has contact with US Rugby in any form must be CIPP'd, so for people at the top to not be CIPP'd does indicate a problem. Boulder should do a mea culpa and explain to all who was not CIPP'd and if falsifying documents occured, the person responsible for this should resign. Transparency was mentioned many times in the last year concerning the restructuring of US Rugby. It is time for transparency to be practice

Before making all sorts of accusations those that are crying foul should look to their own clubs and do an audit to see what % of players are paid up to club dues and CIPP.

My guess is that the rate will be no better or worse than the administrators and elite players that are being lambasted.

Dues paying both at the club and CIPP level has always been an issue.

To me, this is a tempest in a tea pot.

Again, has anyone bothered checking these things or are you all just going to hop on the bandwagon without any research yourself? As far as I can tell, they hadn't paid dues to be on the National Team until 2/7 but were all CIPP'ed with their clubs previously. If this is wrong, feel free to correct me.

Am traveling on business. My thoughts echo "Go the Eagles": if you cannot provide a valid address to be contacted, you are not welcome to contribute. There is no little irony in that the discussion is about accountability. Comments have been unpublished.

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